185 to Hull

[jha4ceb]

I'm sat on the 1342 Manchester to Hull, which is being worked by a 185. I thought these units weren't allowed to travel to Hull? I've certainly never seen one work this route before.

 

[142094]

Sure there is at least one working per day that is a 185?

 

[tbtc]

They are allowed, and do work a few Hull duties. The problem is supposedly the ground being soft so forcing the overweight 185s to run slower than 170s (?). But they can certainly do the trip

 

[northwichcat]

Initially 4 sets of 4 car 170s were supposed to be used on Manchester-Hull but when the Scottish services got added in, 170s mainly operate in 2 car formation now on both Manchester-Hull and South TPE but the busiest services on both those routes are supposed to be 185s.

When TPE first introduced the 185s the Hull services were the only ones to see 185s, until more 185s were introduced.

 

[ainsworth74]

The last time I checked the 16:40 from Hull and the 19:22 from Liverpool (20:11 from Manchester) were both 185s. As for speeds they are timetabled to take just as long as any other service.

 

[jha4ceb]

They are allowed, and do work a few Hull duties. The problem is supposedly the ground being soft so forcing the overweight 185s to run slower than 170s (?). But they can certainly do the trip

That must be what I was thinking of. Funny that I've never noticed one on a Hull service before.

 

[GNERman]

It happens every day, I thought the problem was with the weight of the units on a bridge somewhere east of Leeds? They can operate over it, but at a reduced speed...

 

[Solent&Wessex]

It happens every day, I thought the problem was with the weight of the units on a bridge somewhere east of Leeds? They can operate over it, but at a reduced speed...

There are no particular problems, other than that on the section of line east of Selby where there are differential (higher) speeds for sprinters, they can't run at the sprinter speeds - unlike the 170s. They are given the same times in the schedule as their superior acceleration compared to a 170 means that there is negligible time differences between the two classes.

There are quite a few diagrams for 185's to Hull at various points during the day. The 1842 from Manchester to Hull is booked one as well for example.

 

[lincolnshire]

Before they were introduced, a lot on money was spent to accommodate them overnight at Hull. Overnight shore supply plug in points was installed in the south side sidings along with walkway lighting, a very large generator to supply the power for the sockets.

Large advert,s was placed telling everyone what wonderful units they were and how wonderful the service would be when it started.

It started then within weeks they then started the service from Manchester Airport to Lake District and Scotland and majority of the services from Hull had been relegated to the older second hand 2 car units instead.

Hull City Council etc. should have protested about been relegated to a poorer service with older stock, not what had been promised to the area.

 

[Max]

I imagine when the Scottish services move over to EMU operation 185s will revert back onto the Hull route and the 170s will go elsewhere.

I agree lincolnshire. Hull was initially fully operated using 185s, before being relegated to scruffy (albeit high capacity) 3-car 158s and then (perhaps even worse), the 2-car 170s. Overcrowding was a significant problem when they were first introduced, but TPE do seem to have sorted things out of late.

 

[northwichcat]

I imagine when the Scottish services move over to EMU operation 185s will revert back onto the Hull route and the 170s will go elsewhere.

And how will that give TPE 40 additional carriages by the end of 2013, in line with the rolling stock plan, if they gain 40 but then lose 18? The units released by EMUs on the Scottish services will only put TPE back where they were before they took on the Scottish services.

Overcrowding was a significant problem when they were first introduced, but TPE do seem to have sorted things out of late.

That's news to me, Huddersfield-Leeds and Bolton-Manchester had horrendous overcrowding the last time I checked.
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It started then within weeks they then started the service from Manchester Airport to Lake District

The Windermere and Barrow services were TPE services from the start of the franchise. It was the Manchester Airport to Blackpool service that got added in to the franchise at a later date, followed by the Scottish services 2 years later at the expense of dropping the standard pattern Windermere pattern.

Hull City Council etc. should have protested about been relegated to a poorer service with older stock, not what had been promised to the area.

It wasn't supposed to be a poorer service though. TPE put up posters after the 170 refurbishment saying they've introduced extra carriages meaning all North TPE services will have a minimum of 3 carriages (with the intention being that the Hull services would be 4 car 170s in the main.) However, they then got given the Scottish services to run and that idea went out the window.

I'm surprised John Prescott didn't get involved considering he protested at suggestions that Brough would be dropped as a TPE calling point.

 

[Nym]

Really, they've sorted the overcrowding... Ohhh thats why they leave people behind at Salford Crescent and Bolton every morning then...

And last I checked, between Hull and Leeds off peak a 2 car 170 is fine, just cut the calls at South Milford, Selby and Brough

Nothern's planners aren't blameless, "A 2 CAR 150 IS NOT SUFFICENT OFF PEAK!" theres so such thing as 'off peak' on the Bolton route, theres high peak and low peak into OR, off peak only happens into Victoria.

If EMUs wheren't in such short supply I'd be very contriversial and start cutting routes in half at Oxford Road to get more carriages running out North/West bound on DMUs, or combine DMU services up with the Buxton / Chester services then run Hazel Grove with an EMU again, basically, cut off the Preston and Southport diagrams from the Airport & Stockport and terminate at either OR or Piccadilly, if we're that desprate for EMUs then it would need to be done, but it's not just DMUs it's all rolling stock.

 

[Max]

That's news to me, Huddersfield-Leeds and Bolton-Manchester had horrendous overcrowding the last time I checked.

I wasn't referring to TPE as a whole, but the Hull services specifically.

 

[northwichcat]

I wasn't referring to TPE as a whole, but the Hull services specifically.

The whole of the Hull service or just the Leeds-Hull part of it?

 

[Max]

The whole of the Hull service or just the Leeds-Hull part of it?

From my experiences, on the most part TPE seem to have cracked overcrowding on these specific services by putting 4 cars on the busiest trains (originally they ran as 2 cars when 170s were first introduced). I'm not saying that my experiences are representative of TPE as a whole, far from it. Overcrowding between Leeds and Huddersfield is severe, there's no question about that.

 

[Eeveevolve]

It's a miracle if my 06:56 Hud to Leeds morning 170 has been doubled up. This week it was only Tuesday IIRC.

That service would cope very well with a 185 or two 170s as I assume it is supposed to be.