1830 Edge Hill Engine Station site gains heritage protection

[Winthorpe]

Some very good news that the site of the 1830 Edge Hill station, the first locomotive terminus of the Liverpool and Manchester Railway, has gained Scheduled Monument recognition and protection.

This is the culmination of many years' effort by the Liverpool & Manchester Railway Trust. On their Twitter feed is a thread covering the history of the site, its current use, and details of their campaign to secure protected status for the site. You can read the thread here.

The story is also covered by the BBC:

Liverpool Edge Hill: Historic railway site gains heritage protection

Edge Hill in Liverpool, which opened in 1830, is regarded as the cradle of the world's railways.

www.bbc.co.uk

The site is inaccessible to the public because it is still part of the working railway, but it would be fascinating to visit if ever a way is found to enable it. Fingers crossed that that will one day be possible.

Congratulations to those involved in the project.

 

[John Luxton]

Some very good news that the site of the 1830 Edge Hill station, the first locomotive terminus of the Liverpool and Manchester Railway, has gained Scheduled Monument recognition and protection.

This is the culmination of many years' effort by the Liverpool & Manchester Railway Trust. On their Twitter feed is a thread covering the history of the site, its current use, and details of their campaign to secure protected status for the site. You can read the thread here.

The story is also covered by the BBC:


The site is inaccessible to the public because it is still part of the working railway, but it would be fascinating to visit if ever a way is found to enable it. Fingers crossed that that will one day be possible.

Congratulations to those involved in the project.

This is only a couple of miles from where I live. It would be great if it could be turned into a heritage attraction. Nearby are the Williamson Tunnels which probably due to proximity I have never visited. (For anyone unaware of the Williamson Tunnels - they are not railway tunnels but basically a grand job creation project. If you Google you will find out more). Given that the Williamson Tunnels have been turned into a heritage attraction opening this area would make a complementary attraction quite close by. Perhaps National Museums Liverpool could be involved in taking the Edge Hill project on? National Museums appear to have thrown much money at developing the slavery section of the Maritime Museum in recent years - perhaps its now time to turn attention to something else even if it doesn't tick the trendy "pc" boxes?

I do recall that the area around Crown Street on the other side of the tunnel was tidied up for Rocket 150 but quickly suffered damage and the heritage features including the portal of the L&M tunnel were covered over.

 

[Winthorpe]

Given that the Williamson Tunnels have been turned into a heritage attraction opening this area would make a complementary attraction quite close by. Perhaps National Museums Liverpool could be involved in taking the Edge Hill project on? National Museums appear to have thrown much money at developing the slavery section of the Maritime Museum in recent years - perhaps its now time to turn attention to something else even if it doesn't tick the trendy "pc" boxes?

I am in complete agreement with you.

One of the Tweets in the thread I linked to, mentions it could form part of a new World Heritage Site:

The cutting is the youngest and the most impressive of the group and it deserves to become a tourist attraction in the future, with Historic England even suggesting it could form part of a new World Heritage Site.

https://twitter.com/LMRailway/status/1562900573338636288

Hopefully the 200th anniversary of the opening of the railway in 2030 will focus minds on developing a fitting heritage attraction.

Nearby are the Williamson Tunnels which probably due to proximity I have never visited. (For anyone unaware of the Williamson Tunnels - they are not railway tunnels but basically a grand job creation project. If you Google you will find out more). Given that the Williamson Tunnels have been turned into a heritage attraction opening this area would make a complementary attraction quite close by.

Thanks for the information on the Williamson Tunnels. I didn't know about them. I'm going to plan a visit there. It looks fascinating. Here's the link in case anyone else reading this might also be interested: Williamson Tunnels Heritage Centre (http://www.williamsontunnels.co.uk/)

 

[NorthWestRover]

National Museums appear to have thrown much money at developing the slavery section of the Maritime Museum in recent years - perhaps its now time to turn attention to something else even if it doesn't tick the trendy "pc" boxes?

I don't comment on most of the political stuff on here, but to describe a slavery museum as trendy PC would be laughable if it wasn't so offensive.

 

[John Luxton]

I don't comment on most of the political stuff on here, but to describe a slavery museum as trendy PC would be laughable if it wasn't so offensive.

I wasn't trying to be offensive but quite a few people I know are also interested in ships are dismayed at how our great Maritime Museum has decayed since days its opening in 1984.

Space has been taken away to expand non maritime content. Yes slavery does have a role to play in the ports history but it has expanded out of all proportion whilst quality Maritime content has declined.

Meanwhile one historic vessel the WINCHAM has been lost a few years ago and DeWADDEN has already been served notice it's days are numbered because National Museums can't afford to maintain it.

I imagine my jab would find approval amongst a lot of North West ship enthusiasts as I have heard others voice the same opinion.

Basically I am suggesting enough is enough and it's time to spend some funds on something else and developing Edge Hill would be a good way of doing so and refocus in time for Rocket 200.

 

[DerekC]

Let's not turn a bit of railway history good news into a political thread.

I don't know the site. What are the lines on the left of the main BBC picture used for? Where is the location at street level? Is there a way of isolating the working railway by fencing and allowing public access (maybe via a temporary stairway) to the area on the right? I am sure the L&M Railway Trust is working on it, but Forum members might input some useful ideas.

 

[John Luxton]

Let's not turn a bit of railway history good news into a political thread.

I don't know the site. What are the lines on the left of the main BBC picture used for? Where is the location at street level? Is there a way of isolating the working railway by fencing and allowing public access (maybe via a temporary stairway) to the area on the right? I am sure the L&M Railway Trust is working on it, but Forum members might input some useful ideas.

The lines are a head shunt. Not even sure if they are still used. This is a screen shot from Google Earth the area is the cutting to the left. The Lime Street line to the right Edge Hill Station bottom right.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Aug 2022 ==

On Wednesday morning, August 31, I was able to visit the Edge Hill Engine Station courtesy of Network Rail and the Liverpool and Manchester Railway Trust who arranged for committee members of the Merseyside Industrial History Society to view the site.

This site was part of the 1980 Edge Hill Rail Trail. Though it has become very heavily overgrown.

Photographs can be found here: https://www.jhluxton.com/Railways-a...Hill-Engine-Station-Liverpool-Manchester-Rly/

 

[Winthorpe]

On Wednesday morning, August 31, I was able to visit the Edge Hill Engine Station courtesy of Network Rail and the Liverpool and Manchester Railway Trust who arranged for committee members of the Merseyside Industrial History Society to view the site.

This site was part of the 1980 Edge Hill Rail Trail. Though it has become very heavily overgrown.

Photographs can be found here: https://www.jhluxton.com/Railways-a...Hill-Engine-Station-Liverpool-Manchester-Rly/

That’s great. What an opportunity. Thanks for the photos (fantastic website by the way). It seems like there is some momentum to make something of the site. Long overdue.

The lines are a head shunt. Not even sure if they are still used.

On the current use of the head shunt, did anyone say how often it is used these days?

 

[Ashley Hill]

Was it the Wapping tunnel that has a runaway tunnel in it? ISTR reading that a descending train had to stop at a marker/signal ahead of the runaway tunnel and operate a plunger. This would indicate to the box that the train had successfully stopped and the points changed to allow the train to enter the terminal.

 

[John Luxton]

That’s great. What an opportunity. Thanks for the photos (fantastic website by the way). It seems like there is some momentum to make something of the site. Long overdue.


On the current use of the head shunt, did anyone say how often it is used these days?

Apparently our Network Rail guide informed us they are still used very occasionally and are classed as live. Maintenance stock, tampers and things sometimes lay over there.

I couldn't imagine things being left there for long as there was plenty of evidence that the cutting is used for dumping.

One of the largest dumped items noted was a mini-motor bike large enough to cause some serious injury to man or stock if it landed on them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Aug 2022 ==

Was it the Wapping tunnel that has a runaway tunnel in it? ISTR reading that a descending train had to stop at a marker/signal ahead of the runaway tunnel and operate a plunger. This would indicate to the box that the train had successfully stopped and the points changed to allow the train to enter the terminal.

I am not sure about that. We only went up to the gate.

 

[edwin_m]

Apparently our Network Rail guide informed us they are still used very occasionally and are classed as live. Maintenance stock, tampers and things sometimes lay over there.

I couldn't imagine things being left there for long as there was plenty of evidence that the cutting is used for dumping.

One of the largest dumped items noted was a mini-motor bike large enough to cause some serious injury to man or stock if it landed on them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Aug 2022 ==


I am not sure about that. We only went up to the gate.

I attempted to visit this in 1980 when it was part of the heritage trail mentioned. It had been closed due to risk of things being dropped onto visitors.

 

[John Luxton]

I attempted to visit this in 1980 when it was part of the heritage trail mentioned. It had been closed due to risk of things being dropped onto visitors.

For some strange reason I never did visit in 1980 though I went to the cavalcade and the Bold Colliery display of rolling stock.
I think it suffered from being rather close to home as it is only about 2 miles from me.

 

[Bevan Price]

Since 2010, the government has cut funding to Liverpool Council by £ many millions. You cannot blame them if they consider that other things might be more vital than museums & heritage projects.
Access to the first Edge Hill station was via a very steep staircase; "equality" lobby groups might start to ask for "disabled access" if it was ever to reopen as a "public heritage site" - and that would be unaffordable (in addition to altering the heritage status of the site.).

 

[edwin_m]

Since 2010, the government has cut funding to Liverpool Council by £ many millions. You cannot blame them if they consider that other things might be more vital than museums & heritage projects.
Access to the first Edge Hill station was via a very steep staircase; "equality" lobby groups might start to ask for "disabled access" if it was ever to reopen as a "public heritage site" - and that would be unaffordable (in addition to altering the heritage status of the site.).

Is there room under Tunnel Road for a path alongside the remaining tracks, which could be fenced off for a safe level access via a ramp down from the road?

 

[John Luxton]

Since 2010, the government has cut funding to Liverpool Council by £ many millions. You cannot blame them if they consider that other things might be more vital than museums & heritage projects.
Access to the first Edge Hill station was via a very steep staircase; "equality" lobby groups might start to ask for "disabled access" if it was ever to reopen as a "public heritage site" - and that would be unaffordable (in addition to altering the heritage status of the site.).

We used the 1980s path to gain access, still had the faded ornamental railings which were definitely late 20th Century. I imagine it would not be too difficult to install a lift down from Tunnel Road the designated heritage area commences well inside the cutting thus any lift would not intrude into this area and once down to ground level it would be wheelchair friendly if surfaced. Though I have not visited the nearby Williamson Tunnels attraction their web site just states that the tunnels are not accessible to wheelchairs and it does not appear to have affected their operations. Wheelchair access is always desirable but not always practical. Though I think it could be done here.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Sep 2022 ==


With regard to Liverpool City Council - perhaps if they didn't throw so much money at so called road improvement schemes - they might have a lot more money for other projects.

Is there room under Tunnel Road for a path alongside the remaining tracks, which could be fenced off for a safe level access via a ramp down from the road?

Oh yes. If you look around on the web there are a few photos taken during the previous public openings. There was a security fence between the live track and the public area with plenty of space. At some stage this fence which appeared quite substantial must had been recovered and reused somewhere else as there is no trace of it today.

 

[RWLDproject]

Was it the Wapping tunnel that has a runaway tunnel in it? ISTR reading that a descending train had to stop at a marker/signal ahead of the runaway tunnel and operate a plunger. This would indicate to the box that the train had successfully stopped and the points changed to allow the train to enter the terminal.

There's a bit on this issue of working the tunnel and runaways in the latest blog post on our project site: https://www.railwayaccidents.port.ac.uk/listed-accidents/

 

[Winthorpe]

There's a bit on this issue of working the tunnel and runaways in the latest blog post on our project site: https://www.railwayaccidents.port.ac.uk/listed-accidents/

Thank you for the link to the blog, @RWLDproject. Just been reading some of the other stuff on the project site. Great work.