175 failure at Wem (17 May)

[6Gman]

Oh dear!

1430 Manchester - S Wales today failed just S of Wem (compressor?). Still there when I passed at c.1800 !

1530 Manchester - S Wales shown Cancelled at Shrewsbury, but - I think - followed the 1430 and attached to it (to get it moving?). When I passed there were two 175s, coupled, near Wem.

No idea what happened to 1520 Crewe - Salop stopper. Didn't see it anywhere!

1630 Manchester - S Wales was diverted via Chester - expected Salop c.1815 [maybe ....] to pick up rather a lot of unhappy passengers!

Anybody got any more info?

 

[trainophile]

Having looked on ATW Journey Check I'd say today could be classed as a complete shambles, sad to say. The worrying thing is, it's becoming more and more of a regular thing .

 

[PHILIPE]

It's usually freights that stop the job on the Marches.

 

[6Gman]

It's usually freights that stop the job on the Marches.

Not today! Incidentally, it appears that the stopper stopped at Prees ... for a long, long time .... while a bus was found to take them forward.

 

[Jez]

I guessed something happened yesterday as a pacer turned up on the 1904 Cardiff-Pembroke Dock Service (1530 ex Manchester) so I knew the service must have been restarted at Cardiff.

Is there a problem with the 175s at the moment? I have seen quite a few 158s on the Manchester-South Wales runs recently. Despite the Cardiff-Holyheads starting in Shrewsbury which must save a unit.

I also saw a 150 on the sidings outside Manchester Piccadilly on Tuesday evening with Chester on the front, so assume one of the Manchester-North Wales diagrams was a 150. Its rare to see an ATW 150 in Manchester apart from weekends. On a Saturday a 150 seems to turn up on the 630am Manchester-Milford Haven etc diagram a good proportion of the time at the moment despite it being booked for a 158, since January id say its been almost a 50:50 split between 158 and 150 when ive seen it.

 

[Welshman]

I also saw a 150 on the sidings outside Manchester Piccadilly on Tuesday evening with Chester on the front, so assume one of the Manchester-North Wales diagrams was a 150. Its rare to see an ATW 150 in Manchester apart from weekends.

If it was the 1950 Chester service you saw, then the 150 would have been deputising for a 158, not a 175.

The 0712 Chester-Manchester Piccadilly is usually 2x158, and then forms the 0850 off Manchester to Holyhead/Llandudno, splitting at Chester. The rear 158, forming the Llandudno portion, then stays on the Manchester-Llandudno diagram for the rest of the day, ending with the 1950 from Manchester. On several occasions it has been this service for which a 150 has been substituted.

 

[TDK]

the 175's have had overheating problems recently with engines shutting down, the 175 only has 1 compressor that is electrically and not mechanically driven and if 2 of the 3 engines on a 3 - car shut down there is not a cross feed to the compressor this could have been the problem at Wem, this is only supposition though.

I am sure Alstom will sort the problem as soon as they possibly can. Regarding class 150's on the Manchester route Welshman is correct as there is a 158 diagram that is occasionally replaced with a 150. I did notice yesterday (Sunday) that a few of the Holyhead runs has 150 or 158/150 combos on them hopefully this is down to Alstom sorting out the 175 overheating problem.

 

[PHILIPE]

Did this mean there was no train going South of Shrewsbury for approx. 4 hours ? I can't see any reference to buses being used and to make matters worse the Holyheads were terminating at Shrewsbury due to Engineering work.

 

[Tracky]

Fitters were keeping busy today with yard brushes sweeping out the vents...

 

[313103]

Arriva should only have a maximum of 3 175 failures per fleet, they are currently running at a high of 8 sets out of service at any one time, hence the high number of 158s appearing on South Wales main line services. Today a 150 failed at Swansea.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Arriva should only have a maximum of 3 175 failures per fleet, they are currently running at a high of 8 sets out of service at any one time, hence the high number of 158s appearing on South Wales main line services. Today a 150 failed at Swansea.

Short formed services on Cambrian to free up 158's

 

[Rich McLean]

Short formed services on Cambrian to free up 158's

Many 4 car trains today between BHI and Shrewsbury were 2 car vice 4 today, with the coast portions being attached/detached at Shrewsbury as required

 

[andypops]

Arriva should only have a maximum of 3 175 failures per fleet, they are currently running at a high of 8 sets out of service at any one time, hence the high number of 158s appearing on South Wales main line services.

3 failures out of a fleet of 27 = 11.1% failure rate. That strikes me as a bit high!! Especially when you consider the daily diagramming requirements needing something like 23 out of 26 sets if memory serves.

And 8 out of 27 failures = 29.6% failures. Absolute shambles...Couple that to the fact that ATW have significantly tightened up their "Passenger Charter" rules on compen for delays (don't get me started on this subject!) and it looks like an absolute dog's dinner.



What is going wrong at the moment? This time two years ago, it was relatively quiet on the failure front (except the odd long-term sick caused by tractors / straw lorries on level crossings in west wales...). Have there been surreptitious cutbacks in maintenance at the behest of the parent company perhaps? Or maybe too much reliance on the 175 fleet over an extended period - e.g. while 158s, 150s etc have been refitted / revinyled - leading to not enough preventative maintenance, and consequent failures in service?

Whatever it is, I hope it's fixed soon. Passenger-carrying capacity on the Marches south of Shrewsbury, even during the off peaks, is seriously stretched as it is without having fewer, smaller units substituting.

 

[6Gman]

Did this mean there was no train going South of Shrewsbury for approx. 4 hours ? I can't see any reference to buses being used and to make matters worse the Holyheads were terminating at Shrewsbury due to Engineering work.

I assume the 1408 ex Crewe left Salop at c.1440

The next Manchester - Cardiff was expected to leave Salop at c.1815

So three and a half hours,


....ish!

 

[PHILIPE]

I assume the 1408 ex Crewe left Salop at c.1440

The next Manchester - Cardiff was expected to leave Salop at c.1815

So three and a half hours,


....ish!

Real Time Trains shows 14 47 and 18 38.

 

[Erniescooper]

3 failures out of a fleet of 27 = 11.1% failure rate. That strikes me as a bit high!! Especially when you consider the daily diagramming requirements needing something like 23 out of 26 sets if memory serves.

And 8 out of 27 failures = 29.6% failures. Absolute shambles...Couple that to the fact that ATW have significantly tightened up their "Passenger Charter" rules on compen for delays (don't get me started on this subject!) and it looks like an absolute dog's dinner.



What is going wrong at the moment? This time two years ago, it was relatively quiet on the failure front (except the odd long-term sick caused by tractors / straw lorries on level crossings in west wales...). Have there been surreptitious cutbacks in maintenance at the behest of the parent company perhaps? Or maybe too much reliance on the 175 fleet over an extended period - e.g. while 158s, 150s etc have been refitted / revinyled - leading to not enough preventative maintenance, and consequent failures in service?

Whatever it is, I hope it's fixed soon. Passenger-carrying capacity on the Marches south of Shrewsbury, even during the off peaks, is seriously stretched as it is without having fewer, smaller units substituting.

Contractual availability of the Class 175 fleet is 24 out of 27 during the week and 23 at weekends , i've no idea where the bobbins about 8 being out of traffic at a time comes from as the lowest availability has dropped was 22 on Saturday afternoon when 101 failed and by 5 o clock we were back up to 23 . In fact we have been supplying 25 units in order to help out ATW while engineering works were taking place in last couple of weeks. The 12 month rolling MTIN figure is just shy of 20k miles per 3 minute delay and has risen year on year since 2008 and is one of the best in the new DMU class.
101 suffered from engine shutdowns to 50 and 56 cars after the rads became choked seeds and pollen , this unfortunately happens at this time every year for about a week and effects all types of DMU and I have spoken to people from at least four TOCs this week who are suffering similar issues.

 

[No Fault Found]

The class 180's have also had a bad week with overheating.

Do the 175's still have the triple matrix on one side of the cooler group (oil, fuel and charge air)?

 

[causton]

Possibly related to the report of the Pacer on the Milford Haven service but on Sunday I took the first Heart of Wales line service which started from Swansea and was a Pacer. Had to swap to a 153 at Llandrindod as I guessed the crew changed there and did not know how to work it, or nobody would know what to do with it if it made it to Shrewsbury!

Also possibly related to the last post about 180s, wasn't good the other day. Monday's 1230 Hull - Kings Cross, apparently one engine was out and the WiFi and air con wasn't working in that coach. Thankfully I was in a coach with working air con but the vestibule was bloody boiling, with the walls almost too hot to touch! Guess that's what you mean by overheating!

 

[6Gman]

Real Time Trains shows 14 47 and 18 38.

I thought 1815 was optimistic! Must have been very busy from Salop.

 

[ValleyLines142]

More chaos between Shrewsbury and Crewe this afternoon, this time a signalling problem between Wem and Nantwich.

1330 and 1430 Manchester to Cardiff et al. both currently running about 45-50 minutes down!

 

[headshot119]

Possibly related to the report of the Pacer on the Milford Haven service but on Sunday I took the first Heart of Wales line service which started from Swansea and was a Pacer. Had to swap to a 153 at Llandrindod as I guessed the crew changed there and did not know how to work it, or nobody would know what to do with it if it made it to Shrewsbury!

Also possibly related to the last post about 180s, wasn't good the other day. Monday's 1230 Hull - Kings Cross, apparently one engine was out and the WiFi and air con wasn't working in that coach. Thankfully I was in a coach with working air con but the vestibule was bloody boiling, with the walls almost too hot to touch! Guess that's what you mean by overheating!

Shrewsbury crews (Who take over at Llandrndod) don't sign 143s or 142s so the Carmarthen crew would have had to take the pacer back to whence it came.

 

[The Planner]

Axle counters decided to give up because its got warm again?

 

[causton]

Shrewsbury crews (Who take over at Llandrndod) don't sign 143s or 142s so the Carmarthen crew would have had to take the pacer back to whence it came.

Thanks - guessed that was why it had to go back

 

[PHILIPE]

Shrewsbury crews (Who take over at Llandrndod) don't sign 143s or 142s so the Carmarthen crew would have had to take the pacer back to whence it came.

Not route authorised beyond Craven Arms either.

 

[Erniescooper]

The class 180's have also had a bad week with overheating.

Do the 175's still have the triple matrix on one side of the cooler group (oil, fuel and charge air)?

We've been able to take the fuel cooler off as it's only required on QSK engined units but the seeds and pollen aren't even getting to rads themselves as they are building up on the screens and doing it a matter of just a few hours . We can go from a freshley brushed screen to an inch thick layer of what looks like cotton wool in about 3 hours at the moment .

 

[No Fault Found]

We've been able to take the fuel cooler off as it's only required on QSK engined units but the seeds and pollen aren't even getting to rads themselves as they are building up on the screens and doing it a matter of just a few hours . We can go from a freshley brushed screen to an inch thick layer of what looks like cotton wool in about 3 hours at the moment .

Wow! That's pretty serious. Ours aren't quite so bad but the problem we have is that the leaves have found there way between the fuel / oil panels and the charge air panels and the only way they can be removed is to take the panels out.

They've obviously been there since autumn but didn't cause a problem during the colder weather. As soon as we got a warm day, they've caused multiple failures.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Are yours shutting down with high hydro oil temp?

 

[Erniescooper]

Wow! That's pretty serious. Ours aren't quite so bad but the problem we have is that the leaves have found there way between the fuel / oil panels and the charge air panels and the only way they can be removed is to take the panels out.

They've obviously been there since autumn but didn't cause a problem during the colder weather. As soon as we got a warm day, they've caused multiple failures.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Are yours shutting down with high hydro oil temp?

it's about a 50/50 split between high coolant temp and high hydro oil temp.

 

[No Fault Found]

At the moment ours are only de-rating with high coolant temp but shutting down with high hydro oil. But doesn't sound like we're having problems as bad as you. The screens are fairly dirty but it's the leaves between the rads that have built up over time that have caused us problems.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Not route authorised beyond Craven Arms either.

Keep those scrapyard dodgers down there!

 

[Parallel]

I've always wondered about pacers at Shrewsbury, a yellow label on one of the portable train ramps by the gents' toilets there says "suitable for 15x, 14x" and the one on the ramp next to it says something like "175" - I imagine it's just labelled should the situation ever happen, but if pacers aren't permitted north of Craven Arms, I can't see when it would happen.

Interesting to see the pacers working long journeys as replacement units. I always think Cheltenham Spa - Maesteg is quite a long route anyway, but I'm glad I'm not sitting on one from Cardiff to Pembroke Dock or Swansea to Llandrindod!

Although Arriva publicise over twitter that they don't have any spare trains, and although this is true, any 150s/142s/143s seem to go on doubling up valleys services which are definitely needed at peak times, but when it comes to lack of trains to cover for other services, Arriva can arrange for one of the units attached to cover without causing TOO much disruption. When I say that, I have been on a peak time single Penarth pacer (Pacer alliteration there ) It didn't look like it was going to make the gradient at Dingle Road!