17.26 Leeds Skipton

[Amphora]

According to one of the guards, this is now the busiest train to come out of Leeds, full stop.

There can be 20 people stood in the door area on the class 333s!

Caught the 16.45 Leeds to Morcambe train today, the screens didn't mention that the train stopped at Skipton!

 

[yorksrob]

According to one of the guards, this is now the busiest train to come out of Leeds, full stop.

There can be 20 people stood in the door area on the class 333s!

Caught the 16.45 Leeds to Morcambe train today, the screens didn't mention that the train stopped at Skipton!

The service beyond Settle Junction is quite scarse. They probably don't want people to be left on the platform with a two + hour wait due to the train being full of Skipton passengers (who have a much more frequent service).

 

[Adam0984]

They're getting a bit clever with the screens at Leeds trying to push people on bigger trains or faster trains. As regards the 1726 it is extremely busy it's something that needs looking at maybe a 1720 1st stop Bingley clear a chunk of people then do the 1726 all stops. From a guard POV it's an awful train because the doors have to be closed from the middle where the full train can be seen and when arriving there is 2 options the guard either has to
1) dispatch from middle at Leeds and stay there for arrival and departure at Shipley
2) dispatch from rear at Leeds then on arrival at Shipley walk down the platform to ensure the front of the train is fully accommodated then walk back to the rear release doors, key out and dispatch from the middle

 

[Amphora]

The service beyond Settle Junction is quite scarse. They probably don't want people to be left on the platform with a two + hour wait due to the train being full of Skipton passengers (who have a much more frequent service).

Fair point, hadn't thought of that.

 

[yorksrob]

Fair point, hadn't thought of that.

On the plus side, now that you're party to privileged information that your fellow Skiptonians are denied, there's nothing to stop you taking advantage of it and getting a seat on the Lanky train !

 

[Amphora]

On the plus side, now that you're party to privileged information that your fellow Skiptonians are denied, there's nothing to stop you taking advantage of it and getting a seat on the Lanky train !

Was good to stand on the Lanky today, what with the heat n'all. Was strange seeing the open air through the window gaps (they were obviously open). Bit like the old mark 1, 2? Carriages that ran up until the 80s. They had an open slot at the top of the window, allowing you to hurl abuse at folk!

 

[transmanche]

2) dispatch from rear at Leeds then on arrival at Shipley walk down the platform to ensure the front of the train is fully accommodated then walk back to the rear release doors, key out and dispatch from the middle

Couldn't they do something similar to the NY Subway's 'zebra boards', which line up with the conductor's cab if the train has stopped in the correct position - and the conductor has to point at the zebra board to prove they have checked.

You can see it in operation in this video:

[youtube]i9jIsxQNz0M[/youtube]

 

[yorksrob]

Was good to stand on the Lanky today, what with the heat n'all. Was strange seeing the open air through the window gaps (they were obviously open). Bit like the old mark 1, 2? Carriages that ran up until the 80s. They had an open slot at the top of the window, allowing you to hurl abuse at folk!

Ah now, a proper train would have been one of the 308's that did the Skipton stoppers before 2001. Slam doors and drop-lights. (I used to commute between Leeds and Bradford between about 1999 and 2001)

 

[55z]

Your 308 EMUs are dangerous with passengers able to open doors before a train has come to a stop. As far as the 1726 Leeds to Skipton is concerned this train is overloaded and has been for years. I suggested that it omit the Shipley stop but Metro etc wouldn't here of it.

 

[crispy1978]

They're getting a bit clever with the screens at Leeds trying to push people on bigger trains or faster trains.

I noticed that once when I wanted to go from Leeds to York to clear track/stations they have the destination advertised as Poppleton. I get that it's probably so people don't jump on it by mistake and add an extra hour to their journey, but I'm sure it always used to be "York via Harrogate" but that obviously wasn't clear enough for some.

 

[yorksrob]

Your 308 EMUs are dangerous with passengers able to open doors before a train has come to a stop.

Ah yes, nothing like a bit of slam door hysteria to pass the long summer nights.

Cars have slam doors which can be opened during transit, yet inexplicably we still seem to have them.

 

[Amphora]

Ah now, a proper train would have been one of the 308's that did the Skipton stoppers before 2001. Slam doors and drop-lights. (I used to commute between Leeds and Bradford between about 1999 and 2001)

They were very ropey. Came back one evening and honestly thought the thing was about to derail (past Cononley) That's not an exaggeration, I really believed we were coming off !

They have some dusty bins on the Forster Sq run. The seats don't line up with the windows, strange.

 

[yorksrob]

They were very ropey. Came back one evening and honestly thought the thing was about to derail (past Cononley) That's not an exaggeration, I really believed we were coming off !

They have some dusty bins on the Forster Sq run. The seats don't line up with the windows, strange.

Lively perhaps, but I never had anything too exciting on them.

I don't mind the bins. We get a lot of them around Wakefield, but as you say, they suffer the design shortcomings of all the PEP derived stock - principally windows in the wrong places. Compared to the 333's, two loo's can be very good though!

 

[Darren R]

I noticed that once when I wanted to go from Leeds to York to clear track/stations they have the destination advertised as Poppleton. I get that it's probably so people don't jump on it by mistake and add an extra hour to their journey, but I'm sure it always used to be "York via Harrogate" but that obviously wasn't clear enough for some.

Not sure how far back you're going, but they've not been advertised as "York via Harrogate" within living memory! I used to be a regular on the line in the late 1980s/early 90s, and they were advertised as Poppleton trains even then.

They seem to be getting a bit canny with the boards at Leeds recently, presumably in an attempt to spread peak loadings between services. The trouble is that most regular commuters know better, and still insist on catching the first train home - even if it means standing most of the way despite there being seats on another service a few minutes later. The Skipton corridor is particularly prone to this: the 'fast' trains to beyond Skipton depart from Leeds a few minutes ahead of the all-stations. Commuters for Shipley, Bingley, Keighley and Skipton catch the Carlisle/Morecambe trains because it gets them home a little earlier than catching the all-shacks to Skipton would. Handy for some, less so for those who have no choice of train because they are going to somewhere north of Skipton.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I noticed that once when I wanted to go from Leeds to York to clear track/stations they have the destination advertised as Poppleton. I get that it's probably so people don't jump on it by mistake and add an extra hour to their journey, but I'm sure it always used to be "York via Harrogate" but that obviously wasn't clear enough for some.

I have noticed a few changes recently. The idea of taking an intermediate stop off the screens is definitely one I haven't seen before, along with the listing Sheffield via Castleford as Meadowhall which was mentioned in another thread. I haven't been to Leeds for a few weeks, are the Man Vic via Brighouse services still listed in full?

They were very ropey. Came back one evening and honestly thought the thing was about to derail (past Cononley) That's not an exaggeration, I really believed we were coming off !

They have some dusty bins on the Forster Sq run. The seats don't line up with the windows, strange.

308s were rather bouncy, but considering they replaced pacers I don't think anyone minded at the time! They were a bit rattly and tired looking by the end though.

The seat/window thing is as stated above is common to all PEP and 20m Mk3 stock. It isn't helped by the sliding door pockets and I don't think there's an easy way around it without reducing seated capacity and/or moving from most seats having a partial window (as is) to some seats having a full window and some having very little or none. I have a vague picture in my head of tube stock where the surrounds of the pocket is glazed, but I could be tripping and I'm not really on topic now...

As for the service in question, omitting Shipley would lead to extra crowds on following services that do call there. The suggestion upthread of an extra service going first-stop Bingley would be a better solution but I'd be surprised if a unit could be found in the peak to run it... Unless Northern can bag an extra 321! There is also the upcoming opening of 2 new stations (Kirkstall Forge and Apperley Bridge) to muddy the waters further...

 

[yorksrob]

The best thing would be if they could find an ex-London train that finished it's diagram about then and sent it up to Skipton. Sadly, it's probably just the wrong time of day.

 

[12CSVT]

Would there be a case for making services to/from Morecambe and Carlisle pick up only / set down only as far as Keighley or Skipton during the peaks ?

 

[johntea]

Maybe not the 17:26 (I'm usually going the opposite way, though I'm now temporarily living in Shipley anyway!) but a weird thing with the 333 trains is everyone seems shy of sitting next to each other!

 

[Bantamzen]

They seem to be getting a bit canny with the boards at Leeds recently, presumably in an attempt to spread peak loadings between services. The trouble is that most regular commuters know better, and still insist on catching the first train home - even if it means standing most of the way despite there being seats on another service a few minutes later. The Skipton corridor is particularly prone to this: the 'fast' trains to beyond Skipton depart from Leeds a few minutes ahead of the all-stations. Commuters for Shipley, Bingley, Keighley and Skipton catch the Carlisle/Morecambe trains because it gets them home a little earlier than catching the all-shacks to Skipton would. Handy for some, less so for those who have no choice of train because they are going to somewhere north of Skipton.

Bloody commuters eh? Figuring out the quickest train to get home, inconsiderate so-and-sos....

Would there be a case for making services to/from Morecambe and Carlisle pick up only / set down only as far as Keighley or Skipton during the peaks ?

Not only would this be close to impossible to administer, what about passengers at the intermediate stations that might actually want to use these services? A at average of 2 per hour for each, they are not regular enough to be able to do this.

 

[Ianigsy]

There might be more of an argument for making the Morecambe an EMU from Leeds to Skipton with a cross-platform connection to a DMU going on to Morecambe (possibly having come from Bradford, where the loadings will be less of an issue) until such time as there are resources to add another unit to the Morecambe train. Another option might be to run a semi-fast at around 1715-1720 terminating at Settle.

Unfortunately I think that once Kirkstall Forge opens, Leeds to Apperley Junction will be running at capacity during the peaks- no paths and the only potential to add capacity will be to increase the Morecambe and Carlisle trains to 4 cars each, at least as far as Skipton.

 

[BantamMenace]

Didn't a previous RUS comment about the possibility of a bay platform at Keighley? With some trains doing all stops to Keighley and others doing Keighley first stop and then all station to Skipton?

Easiest and most logical solution as i've posted many-a-time on here is get the entire aire-wharfe-leeds-bradford set up to 6-car operation.

 

[30907]

Until a new unit falls like manna from heaven we have to work with what we have.

It might be possible to rebalance the loadings a bit by timetable adjustments, at the expense of the regular interval pattern.

Moving the 1726 to 1719 would shift a number of passengers to the 1735 and 1740 as they would reckon rushing for the earlier train was no longer worth it.

More ambitious would be to run the 1656 later at 1705 to take some of the load, and run an additional around 1640 as far as Keighley and return ECS to work the 1740 which comes off Neville Hill. However, a 1705 would conflict with a Bradford Skipton, and reversing
a 1640 at Keighley would require yet more adjustments. Any better ideas?

 

[Bantamzen]

Until a new unit falls like manna from heaven we have to work with what we have.

It might be possible to rebalance the loadings a bit by timetable adjustments, at the expense of the regular interval pattern.

Moving the 1726 to 1719 would shift a number of passengers to the 1735 and 1740 as they would reckon rushing for the earlier train was no longer worth it.

More ambitious would be to run the 1656 later at 1705 to take some of the load, and run an additional around 1640 as far as Keighley and return ECS to work the 1740 which comes off Neville Hill. However, a 1705 would conflict with a Bradford Skipton, and reversing
a 1640 at Keighley would require yet more adjustments. Any better ideas?

Interesting ideas, but from my experience shifting the times of a most loaded services will have little effect. In fact what would probably happen is that people would rush even more than before to get a 17:19 service, meaning a manic rush at the last few moments and resulting in more people trying to shoehorn themselves onto the last carriage. I'm afraid it is what it is, services along that route around the 17:00 mark are always going to be rammed. So either additional paths (and of course units / crews) need to found like your 16:40 to Keighley suggestion, or platform and unit lengthening needs to happen.

 

[crispy1978]

Not sure how far back you're going, but they've not been advertised as "York via Harrogate" within living memory! I used to be a regular on the line in the late 1980s/early 90s, and they were advertised as Poppleton trains even then.

I've definitely seen mention of via Harrogate somewhere as I remember seeing it in years gone by - unless it's the other way round, and it's from the York end?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I've definitely seen mention of via Harrogate somewhere as I remember seeing it in years gone by - unless it's the other way round, and it's from the York end?

Knaresborough and beyond services tend to be listed as "Knaresborough via Harrogate" or "Poppleton via Harrogate", with Harrogate being the main stop on the route, I assume they mention it to assist occasional travellers.

 

[leedslad82]

Knaresborough and beyond services tend to be listed as "Knaresborough via Harrogate" or "Poppleton via Harrogate", with Harrogate being the main stop on the route, I assume they mention it to assist occasional travellers.

From York they advertise it as a service to burley park

 

[bradders1983]

I noticed that once when I wanted to go from Leeds to York to clear track/stations they have the destination advertised as Poppleton. I get that it's probably so people don't jump on it by mistake and add an extra hour to their journey, but I'm sure it always used to be "York via Harrogate" but that obviously wasn't clear enough for some.

I have seen the 1640 from Leeds to Sheffield via Barnsley (semi-fast) advertised as just the 1640 to Meadowhall before today, for similar reasons - there is a fast Leeds-Sheffield train (XC) that leaves at exactly the same time that gets to Sheffield 20 mins before the slower one.

Although this is only on NRE, and not in the station.

 

[DarloRich]

I wonder if there are any independent stats on what are the most heavily loaded trains out of Leeds.

 

[lyndhurst25]

I was on this service a couple of weeks ago. Absolutely crammed and had to stand by the doors, along with a bike and a pram,until Shipley. However there were still people with bags on seats who had to be asked to move them. And don't mention the fat man sat in the middle seat of 3, taking up the whole row...

 

[crehld]

The service beyond Settle Junction is quite scarse. They probably don't want people to be left on the platform with a two + hour wait due to the train being full of Skipton passengers (who have a much more frequent service).

As someone who has been in this situation many times on this service (formally the 1639) I agree. This service is usually full and standing beyond Skipton without having to contend with the Aire Valley commuters.