16x refurb fgw

[387star]

They will recieve USB power points throughout, WIFI and disabled toilets. This from the staff newsletter.
Rumour has it First class will be reduced. I am not sure if seating will change
What is the first unit to be treated?

 

[ainsworth74]

Perhaps a link with a source?

 

[TEW]

The 1st Class has already been declassified in one end and a contract was announced with Wabtec I beleive for the disabled mods.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Perhaps a link with a source?

I posted the same on another forum. No links but it is what we have been told by the company. It will be happening over the next few months.

 

[Class172]

Does this apply to both 165 and 166s, or just one of the classes?

 

[fgwrich]

Does this apply to both 165 and 166s, or just one of the classes?

I would presume that it's going to be 166s that will get the 'luxury' treatment with all the power points et all, with the 165s just getting the toilet mods and Wifi.

First one from memory would/should be going to Knorr Bremse's Wolverton Works soon - from memory the original contract had a September start date for the Chiltern & FGW units - although as Wabtec has some experience of these units then it wouldn't surprise me if the contracts been changed.

 

[SWT_USER]

I would presume that it's going to be 166s that will get the 'luxury' treatment with all the power points et all, with the 165s just getting the toilet mods and Wifi.

First one from memory would/should be going to Knorr Bremse's Wolverton Works soon - from memory the original contract had a September start date for the Chiltern & FGW units - although as Wabtec has some experience of these units then it wouldn't surprise me if the contracts been changed.

Aren't they treated as a common fleet now? Seems to be completely random what turns up on my daily commute. Would be surprised if they ended up with different interiors.

 

[RobShipway]

I would presume that it's going to be 166s that will get the 'luxury' treatment with all the power points et all, with the 165s just getting the toilet mods and Wifi.

First one from memory would/should be going to Knorr Bremse's Wolverton Works soon - from memory the original contract had a September start date for the Chiltern & FGW units - although as Wabtec has some experience of these units then it wouldn't surprise me if the contracts been changed.

If Chiltern and FGW 16x trains are having the work done, then it will be 165 & 166 trains as I don't believe Chiltern has any 166's as per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_166.

 

[TEW]

Aren't they treated as a common fleet now? Seems to be completely random what turns up on my daily commute. Would be surprised if they ended up with different interiors.

They are diagrammed separately, the 166s tend to be used more on Gatwick's and other longer distance services. They already have quite different interiors.

 

[D365]

If Chiltern and FGW 16x trains are having the work done, then it will be 165 & 166 trains as I don't believe Chiltern has any 166's as per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_166.

Correct, Chiltern has 168s as things have turned out. And of course the 'Silver Sets' now.

 

[tsr]

They are diagrammed separately, the 166s tend to be used more on Gatwick's and other longer distance services. They already have quite different interiors.

Although quite a few trains between Reading & Redhill/Gatwick do still end up worked by 165s (bear in mind I see such trains almost every day). This is a long time to end up on one, but if the temperature is right, the toilets are in an OK state, and you can spread out a bit, it's not too bad. However, FGW fast services have no effective way of overtaking on the North Downs Line, so you'll find people catch the first available services from Reading or the Redhill area and have to sit on it for rather a while... so to minimise any discomfort or lack of facilities if timings and onboard conditions are not ideal, any bonuses for 16x units of any local variant will be appreciated.

 

[jimm]

I posted the same on another forum. No links but it is what we have been told by the company. It will be happening over the next few months.

Apart from the quick and easy job of declassifying one of the first class compartments on the 166s, which is already under way, the rest of it will take rather longer.

The programme to fit disabled toilets to the FGW 165s and 166s and Chiltern's 165s - 96 sets in total - at Wolverton is scheduled to take from now until April or May 2018. No idea on wifi or plugs as that is additional work, so whether that will be done in-house by FGW at Reading or by Knorr Bremse at Wolverton hasn't been announced yet.

 

[TEW]

Although quite a few trains between Reading & Redhill/Gatwick do still end up worked by 165s (bear in mind I see such trains almost every day). This is a long time to end up on one, but if the temperature is right, the toilets are in an OK state, and you can spread out a bit, it's not too bad. However, FGW fast services have no effective way of overtaking on the North Downs Line, so you'll find people catch the first available services from Reading or the Redhill area and have to sit on it for rather a while... so to minimise any discomfort or lack of facilities if timings and onboard conditions are not ideal, any bonuses for 16x units of any local variant will be appreciated.

Indeed, but the differences between the units aren't really that great. The main benefit on the Gatwick trains is the rather good luggage provision on 166s. The seats and seating layout are broadly similar though, the 166s are just missing more seats where luggage racks are fitted, and for the extra toilet. There's also 1/3 of 1 carriage fitted with 2+2 seating and also now one declassified First Class compartment with 2+2 seating too. The 166s lose quite a lot of seats compared to the 165s but aren't really any more comfortable.

 

[LexyBoy]

Are there existing examples of public USB power points - won't they just get blocked with gum/card/fluff?

As for first class, on the Thames Valley services it's already a free for all, having one end declassified will just confuse things. Be nice for me though! Nice to see some work being done, I rather like them.

 

[FGW_DID]

166s are currently having one first class compartment declassified. Phase 1 is removing all the markings, stickers and antimacassars but leaving the 1st seats in situ. Phase 2 will see the replacement of the seats (I believe as the sets go through a C4 overhaul).

 

[TEW]

Phase 1 was actually the internal declassification, and phase 2 the removal of exterior branding. It hasn't actually been announced if the seats will be replaced yet AFAIK.

 

[Goatboy]

Are there existing examples of public USB power points - won't they just get blocked with gum/card/fluff?

Why would this happen any more than it would with conventional power points which are fitted to many trains without issue?

 

[zn1]

Im sure the the Aylesbury & Reading Fleets are technically different in the ATP systems..i was told by one of my old contacts that RG & AY fleets shouldnt stray from their core routes due to ATP incompatiability...But I guess with TPWS this goes out of the window...

If i recall also when Turbos leave the GW lines or certain routes the stepboards have to be removed as they become OOG..

One Turbo did Reach Bletchley depot once, via the Oxford branch, for emergency work to be carried out....

 

[RobShipway]

Im sure the the Aylesbury & Reading Fleets are technically different in the ATP systems..i was told by one of my old contacts that RG & AY fleets shouldnt stray from their core routes due to ATP incompatiability...But I guess with TPWS this goes out of the window...

If i recall also when Turbos leave the GW lines or certain routes the stepboards have to be removed as they become OOG..

One Turbo did Reach Bletchley depot once, via the Oxford branch, for emergency work to be carried out....

If the above is true, then explain to me how the Chiltern class 165 & 168's can work out of Paddington when Marylebone is closed which they seem to do on a weekly basis?

Also, some years ago I travelled on a Chiltern class 165 from Reading to Birmingham International and I am pretty sure that it is possible for that to happen even today.

 

[TEW]

The two ATP systems are incombatible but like any other train they can run with the ATP off if if they're on the wrong system.

 

[RPM]

The FGW 165/166s don't have ATP. It is fitted to the HSTs (not sure about the 180s).

On the Chiltern Paddington run the ATP drops out as soon as the train leaves South Ruislip (as it also does north of Aynho) AWS/TPWS remain for protection though. The ATP also drops out between Neasden & Great Missenden and there is no AWS/TPWS there. Just a LUL tripcock as a last resort!

 

[TEW]

The FGW 165/166s don't have ATP. It is fitted to the HSTs (not sure about the 180s).

I beleive the 180s do and the HEX 332s do too.

 

[zn1]

that was my point....you have to remember the GWR/GC routes are a little wider than the rest of the - RSSB documentation quotes as fully cleared mileages for

class 165 is 1439 and 166 1420 miles respectively...

class 170 can clear 4359 miles...

good document to read

http://www.rssb.co.uk/sitecollectiondocuments/pdf/reports/research/T787_rpt_final.pdf

to go anywhere else there are severe restrictions...as said - stepboards for example might have to come off....

 

[Deepgreen]

These units are in a dire condition in general and there is far, far more that needs doing to them than USB points! The internal doors rarely work properly, the PA is awful (including the recorded announcements that actually describe Betchworth as BLetchworth (with an 'L'!!). Are there any other stations in Britain which are mis-pronounced in recorded, rather than live, announcements!? The decor is grim, too, with peeling table tops and arm rests along with FGW's horrible, garish pink and purple. The individual lights frequently don't work at all and the internal information displays are frequently either wrong or not working at all.

On top of this, of course, they have terrible adhesion characteristics which makes them very unsuitable for the North Downs route, especially in autumn, but at any time when conditions are damp. The other bizarre issue is that the driver has to close the doors after the guard signals him or her to do so, rather than the guard being able to do it directly.

 

[Captain Chaos]

The PA system is being changed for an all-in-one system combining cab-to-cab, PA and GSM-R. The recordings will be updated. This is of course linked to the information displays too.

The reason we have to give buzzers to the driver is because the door controls are only active in the leading cab. We give the driver the signal to close (1 - 2) and to go (2). I have no idea the engineering required to activate the door buttons in the rear cab but I don't think it's feasible. Some of these trains work DOO to Padd etc. The ORR or RAIB (whichever is relevant) would probably have a fit if these trains were going about with active door controls in an unsupervised cab which may have unqualified people enter (TE's, RPI's etc.) who could activate something by accident. It may seem strange but it works. I see no reason to change the method of working myself.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

These units are in a dire condition in general and there is far, far more that needs doing to them than USB points! The internal doors rarely work properly, the PA is awful (including the recorded announcements that actually describe Betchworth as BLetchworth (with an 'L'!!). Are there any other stations in Britain which are mis-pronounced in recorded, rather than live, announcements!? The decor is grim, too, with peeling table tops and arm rests along with FGW's horrible, garish pink and purple. The individual lights frequently don't work at all and the internal information displays are frequently either wrong or not working at all.

I know this will just seem like another moan from a Northerner (because it is!) but please allow me to get out my tiny violin for those poor Berkshire commuters! If they'd fit up here I'd happily take them as is... You can have some of Newton Heath's finest in return!

Also, Slaithwaite was initially announced on automated announcements pronounced as it's written "Slay-thwaite", rather than the universally accepted "Slathwaite" or more local "Slawit". It was changed to the former example after a couple of weeks though.

 

[tsr]

I know this will just seem like another moan from a Northerner (because it is!) but please allow me to get out my tiny violin for those poor Berkshire commuters! If they'd fit up here I'd happily take them as is... You can have some of Newton Heath's finest in return!

Also, Slaithwaite was initially announced on automated announcements pronounced as it's written "Slay-thwaite", rather than the universally accepted "Slathwaite" or more local "Slawit". It was changed to the former example after a couple of weeks though.

Firstly, Betchworth isn't in Berkshire. Many people in Berkshire have probably never heard of the place. It's a village between Reigate and Dorking, in deepest Surrey. Therefore, I suggest that Deepgreen may not be wholly referring to problems which plague Berkshire commuter! But that is pedantry and speculation. The fact of the matter is that many people use 16x units, and not just commuters on short-distance journeys. Some North Downs Line trips between Reading and the Redhill area are well in excess of 1 hour.

Secondly, perhaps we could also relieve you of the HSTs, 180s, 185s, 225s, and other similarly atrocious stock, which you poor Northerners have to suffer...

 

[Captain Chaos]

I would gladly swap some 165/166's for some 170's. I find them much nicer. Deal?

 

[RPM]

The other bizarre issue is that the driver has to close the doors after the guard signals him or her to do so, rather than the guard being able to do it directly.

Why is it bizarre? If units are used on a mixture of DOO and guard-worked services then it has to be configured this way. It is exactly the same on Chiltern's 165s, 168s & 172s. Works just fine.

 

[junglejames]

I know this will just seem like another moan from a Northerner (because it is!) but please allow me to get out my tiny violin for those poor Berkshire commuters! If they'd fit up here I'd happily take them as is... You can have some of Newton Heath's finest in return!

Also, Slaithwaite was initially announced on automated announcements pronounced as it's written "Slay-thwaite", rather than the universally accepted "Slathwaite" or more local "Slawit". It was changed to the former example after a couple of weeks though.

The 165/166s are in the same boat as a lot of Northerns units. Very good units, just in need of a bit of TLC. Once the 165/ 166s have had their refurb, they will hopefully be up to scratch again.