1630 Euston (non-stop) Preston - Glasgow.

[General Zod]

I may be catching the above weekday service in the coming days and was wondering if it is likely to be heavily loaded on departure from Euston ?
There was much discussion when the service was introduced and I was wondering what peoples' opinions on a Euston non-stop to Preston and then non-stop to Glasgow are ? Has it been a success ? Has there been a demand for a fast early evening peak to Preston / Glasgow ? Has the temptation of an evening "at seat" meal in First Class and additional drinks and snacks throughout the journey been able to lure extra passengers from the "Business Set" ?

 

[voyagerdude220]

I'd personally love to watch it as far as Preston one day, but seeing Virgin Trains usually has stupidly priced AP singles on virtually every single direct service between London and Glasgow northbound, i'll give it a miss....

And to answer your question.. I personally get the impression that the service may not be very busy, simply because of the peak time ticket restrictions in Standard Class and the fact that I don't fet the feeling that many business people will be using this specific service in First Class between London and Glasgow. It could have around 30-40% max as far as Preston, but overall, not many.

 

[jamesontheroad]

I don't know, but I'd expect it to be well loaded on a Friday, when more people can probably managed to finish work early doors. It's certainly an appealing option if you want to get to Glasgow asap, i.e. after a reasonable working day and with time for a few rounds when you get into town....

 

[driver9000]

Every day that Ive managed to see this train at Preston it carries a decent healthy load, both incoming from London and then picking up for Glasgow, most seats seem to be taken in Standard class.

Going on what Ive seen from the platforms/through windows.

 

[bengolding]

I've used the 16:30 3 times as far as Preston. On all occasions, First Class was very well patronised for the evening meal and I had to buy First Anytime tickets as there were no advance tickets on offer. On one journey, I recall we arrived 5 early, so covering Euston - Preston in 1h55m - not bad! On my most recent journey, we were 5 mins late. Apparently, it is rare for this train to run on time into Glasgow as it usually follows a late-running Manchester-Glasgow service.

Only a handful of First Class customers remained for Glasgow as I alighted at Preston. Even then, there are no good value First Advance tickets on offer to tempt the masses.

Silly platforming at Euston - the 16:30 express usually goes from 13 and the all-stopper Rugby commuter 16:33 to Preston from adjacent 14. A TM told me this has caught many people out!

 

[rail-britain]

I used this service several times recently...
Tue 23 June (on time)
Wed 24 June (5 late)
Thu 25 June (5 late)
Mon 29 June (5 early)

As above, always leaving from Platform 13 with the 16:33 adjacent
Loads of seats reserved in First Class, but many not taken
I assume people were reserving on this service but travelling later

First Class had about 20 passengers as far as Preston, reducing to less than 5 thereafter (on all but one occasion had Coach G to myself)
Standard was about 1/3rd full at Euston, reducing by about half at Preston (between the number of passengers getting off and the small numbers getting on)

The train does tend to run about 10 to 20 minutes late as far as Crewe, which can also include coming to a standstill at Rugby
However it easily makes this up as was proven on Monday 29 June, which had to be held as we followed a local service at Rutherglen

 

[me123]

My Dad's a frequent user of the service. Do not expect a crowded train, it's lightly loaded. They probably could encourage people to book advance tickets on that train; more advances to Glasgow isn't going to break the bank and it would be good for the city.

 

[rail-britain]

Sadly that is not how fares / reservations work though
The numbers are limited and once they are gone they are rarely released again

A good example of this is the 04:25 Glasgow - Euston
This is classed as a "peak" service, as it arrives in Euston before 10:00, with the minimum number of advance reservations
As a result it rarely leaves Glasgow with more than 20 passengers on it
Equally, First Class is often empty until Preston
This would be such a good service to compete against the airlines (as it is one of the few southbound services that allows a day return), but the high fares preclude this

 

[voyagerdude220]

As i often say, i would personally be a big supporter of these high-speed services post-VHF , if they hadn't had the silly system of how they allocate AP single fares, as Rail-Britian describes still in place.. :roll:

 

[harz99]

Virgin really don't understand the market very well, or simply don't care!

Not stopping this 1630 service at Carlisle with all the connectivity available there is plain stupid - it is not as though the set does already not have to slow down almost to a standstill to pass the station anyway.

But there again, since when have Virgin done anything except to suit operational requirements; vis a vis terminating a northbound service at Lancaster - the earliest schedules turnback should again be Carlisle where an awfully large number of people either finish their journey or change lines.

 

[me123]

A good example of this is the 04:25 Glasgow - Euston
This is classed as a "peak" service, as it arrives in Euston before 10:00, with the minimum number of advance reservations
As a result it rarely leaves Glasgow with more than 20 passengers on it
Equally, First Class is often empty until Preston
This would be such a good service to compete against the airlines (as it is one of the few southbound services that allows a day return), but the high fares preclude this

It's the slowest service, certainly.

Perhaps a good promotion would be a day return to London, limited to this train Southbound and another certain train northbound. Improves tourism from Glasgow to London, and could be quite handy for businessmen.

Another reason for this train being quiet, however, is that it is the first train of the day in Glasgow Central. No services link onto this one, so you have to be in Glasgow, or get up early and travel to Glasgow by car or taxi, to use it.

What's also needed, I think, is a morning service to Glasgow arriving before 9am, other than the sleeper. Indeed, the same for Edinburgh would be nice, and potentially even more important. It would improve Scottish tourism and business opportunities and compete with the airlines.

 

[rail-britain]

I agree, getting to this train can be an issue
I leave Cumbernauld at 03:40 and park locally for free
The station doesn't open until 04:00 and boarding doesn't commence until about 04:15

I love the 04:25 Glasgow - Euston, I've used it a few times now
As above, I tend to be the only person in First Class until Preston
The breakfast service is more personalised as well, instead of a tea and topup you get a pot!
There is also the option of more than one breakfast...
You can have one between Glasgow and Carlisle, and then another one after Carlisle; the trick there is to ask to have the pot of tea taken away before Carlisle!
Unusually the onboard crew only go as far Carlisle

The next issue is the return journey
Between 16:00 and 18:00 northbound journeys are also classed as "peak" services
This leaves only the 15:30 or 18:30 as day trip options
The 15:30 is usually very busy and the 18:30 on a Friday is also very busy

Ironic, there is little or no demand for early morning northbound services as they have never existed
The TOCs just won't take the gamble and time it takes for a new service to establish itself

cough, the ticket and marketing at Virgin Trains is actually dictated by Stagecoach...

 

[Techniquest]

Others have said on here Advances run out or whatever on the 1630 EUS - GLC. When looking for some between Preston and Glasgow a few months back on the NXEC Mixing Deck, there were Advance fares available for everything else bar the 1630 EUS - GLC. Same from Euston and I checked a lot of different dates, every time the journey came up as not allowing Advance fares.

 

[tbtc]

Virgin really don't understand the market very well, or simply don't care!

I think they understand the market very well, which is why some people don't like them.

They know that they'll make a lot more money from a half loaded service (with everyone paying the full "peak" fare) than a fully loaded service (with most passengers paying APEX fares).

Yes, they could reduce some prices, but they then run the risk that people aren't going to be prepared to pay the full price fare when they know so many are available for much less.

As for complaining about not having cheap tickets on rush hour Friday services, you might as well ask why cinemas do "two for one" offers midweek, but charge full fare on a weekend - that's the way economics works

 

[driver9000]

Of course this service could be part of the marketing Virgin have run recently and enable the claim of a 4hr journey time between London and Glasgow to be true. That this service is once a day is irrelevant to them

 

[rail-britain]

Of course this service could be part of the marketing Virgin have run recently and enable the claim of a 4hr journey time between London and Glasgow to be true

There is a also the 13:40 Glasgow - Euston, and this is much busier!
Advance purchase tickets are easily available, but the travel options are very limited
First Class passengers are offered hot food after Preston (rather unusual!)

 

[bengolding]

Since they abolished the excellent enhanced Primo options, First Class customers now getting a rather basic hot 'evening meal' on trains leaving Euston and southbound destinations between 16:00-19:00. The 13:40 leaves Preston just before this, but the hot option is still offered.

You may be interested to know that Virgin are now doing yet another trial (in addition to the weekend breakfast trial, which has been extended til Sept). Certain Euston-Glasgow and Glasgow-Euston trains now offer a hot option in First, e.g. the 10:40 down and 11:30 up. The other day, I was offered a mushroom risotto.

 

[harz99]

I think they understand the market very well, which is why some people don't like them.

They know that they'll make a lot more money from a half loaded service (with everyone paying the full "peak" fare) than a fully loaded service (with most passengers paying APEX fares).

Yes, they could reduce some prices, but they then run the risk that people aren't going to be prepared to pay the full price fare when they know so many are available for much less.

As for complaining about not having cheap tickets on rush hour Friday services, you might as well ask why cinemas do "two for one" offers midweek, but charge full fare on a weekend - that's the way economics works

If you are going to quote me, try sticking to the post you extracted a small part from!

My earlier post had nothing to do with fares/prices, being a follow on from the OP which was talking about loadings and the success or otherwise of this very limited stop departure.

And I stick by what I said, it is plain crazy for this departure not to call at Carlisle!

 

[Failed Unit]

And I stick by what I said, it is plain crazy for this departure not to call at Carlisle!

I agree with you on that one. I will be having the pleasure of this service myself shortly. But if it is crawling through Carlisle not stopping there seems pointless. Espcailly if all that happens is the train gets signal checked all the way to Glasgow Central. Would 3 minutes extra to the Glasgow passenger make much difference, they certainly don't think so on the east coast as the fastest service has gone down for 3:59 to 4:13 (current with an extra stop at Berwick)

I remember on the east coast the Tee-Tyne pullman use to leave Newcastle at 07:00 stopping at Durham only, I always wondered why this didn't stop at York as on my one trip on it, it crawled through the station anyway and there were lots of spare seats. (Although IC east coast my have know that stopping at York would result in overcrowding)

 

[tbtc]

And I stick by what I said, it is plain crazy for this departure not to call at Carlisle!

If you're going to stop at one station between Euston and Glasgow then Preston is the biggest market to go for. If you're going to stop it in two places then Crewe/ Lancaster are candidates too - maybe even Wigan etc

Whilst the train may go through Carlisle at slow pace, there may not be time to actually stop (given decelleration time, dwell time, acceleration time, the need to knock on a couple more minutes to cover potential delays due to disruption etc) if it's going to meet it's slot at Glasgow, given how busy it can be in the throat at Central Station.

Whilst Carlisle has obvious links to Dumfries/ Hexham/ Workington lines, it's not a massive place (just the biggest place around)

Apologies for taking your comment out of context

ETA - there's plenty stations where trains crawl through at fairly slow speed - like the NXEC ones through Carstairs - but the cost of actually stopping there may be a lot higher than we'd assume

 

[gordonthemoron]

population of Carlisle is only just over 70K

 

[poshbakerloo]

I guess it would be fast...

 

[me123]

Whilst the train may go through Carlisle at slow pace, there may not be time to actually stop (given decelleration time, dwell time, acceleration time, the need to knock on a couple more minutes to cover potential delays due to disruption etc) if it's going to meet it's slot at Glasgow, given how busy it can be in the throat at Central Station.

Glasgow Central isn't really all that busy at that time of night. The Intercity trains are mostly just going to bed, local services are reduced all round following the evening peak... I'm sure a few minutes wouldn't be a major problem, although it may require some retimetabling running through Lanarkshire.

 

[rail-britain]

Although the 16:30 Euston - Glasgow doesn't stop at Carlisle, there aren't many connections which make it worth stopping
Equally, by that time of the evening the number of passengers would be minimal, although there may be demand for Euston - Carlisle or Preston - Carlisle
I too am surprised they dropped it calling at Carlisle, even in the past the Royal Scot would call only at Carlisle and Preston, north and southbound

The signal checks in the Glasgow area are rare and random
They are usually caused by the Euston service running more than 3 minutes early or late by the time it reaches Motherwell
Two of the services I was on passed Motherwell on time and didn't suffer any type of signal slow

 

[Failed Unit]

I have just booked on this service for 1 week on Wednesday at a cost of £86 first class, was very shocked a cheap ticket was available at such short notice! Even on the East Coast tickets are on offer to Edinburgh for only £78 on both the 1700 and 1800. Times must be hard. The Virgin ticket is very good value when you consider that you get a meal and a bit of shandy as part of the deal (which would cost another £30 on the east coast if you are lucky enough to get a train with decent catering.)

Still can't believe I am using Virgin and crossing between stations in Glasgow rather than use the east coast for a London - Perth journey. Hopefully the east coast route will get better once national express have gone.

 

[me123]

The cross Glasgow transfer isn't hard. There's a free bus, or you can walk it in about 10 minutes (probably a bit more if you don't really know the city). They say to allow 30 minutes; if you were to actually take 30 minutes, you'd either be held up by a badly timed CND protest or lost.

 

[Failed Unit]

The cross Glasgow transfer isn't hard. There's a free bus, or you can walk it in about 10 minutes (probably a bit more if you don't really know the city). They say to allow 30 minutes; if you were to actually take 30 minutes, you'd either be held up by a badly timed CND protest or lost.

It sometimes feels like it takes 10 minutes to change trains at Wavelerley if you end up on platform 2 or 8 &9 and your connection is say on 18! Didn't realise the free bus ran that late at night!

 

[voyagerdude220]

I first did the cross Glasgow [Queen Street to Central] transfer a few weeks ago, using the free bus as it was chucking it down at the time, and it took around 15 minutes due to city centre congestion.

When I walked it a week or two after in the other direction, I followed the signs & spotted Queen Street station through a narrow alley-way and it now only takes me around 5 minutes each way.

 

[me123]

Actually, thinking about it now, the free bus finishes at 8. The 20:40 arrival will mean that you'll miss the 20:41 service unless the Pendolino breaks the record time. As that's unlikely to happen, you have one hour and a minute to do the transfer. Shouldn't be too hard

 

[Failed Unit]

Actually, thinking about it now, the free bus finishes at 8. The 20:40 arrival will mean that you'll miss the 20:41 service unless the Pendolino breaks the record time. As that's unlikely to happen, you have one hour and a minute to do the transfer. Shouldn't be too hard

Depends if I get forced into Waxy o'connors on the way between