16 car formations

[83G/84D]

No-one has mentioned 2 x 2+8 HST. I know it would only happen if one had failed but it has happened on FGW.

 

[Nym]

And 16-carriages would be horrendously expensive because none of the London Terminals can support trains of that length. Extending platforms away from the terminals to allow for longer trains is much easier, but even then the longer the platforms you get the more problems you get with bridges, signals etc.

Ummm, a significant number of the platforms at Euston could take a 16 car formation.

 

[jopsuk]

According to the Sectional Appendix I can find on the Network Rail website (links on the right hand side to the pdfs), that is dated March 2014 and "last updated" (on the page) 31/12/2012, out of 18 platforms the following at Euston could take 16x20m carriages (ie longer than 320m):
1: 398m
2: 376m
3: 325m
4: 321m (tight! many 20m carriages are actually more like 20.5m, so may not fit)
15: 402m
16: 334m

From there, the following have platforms in excess of 320:
Rugby
Nuneaton
Coventry
Birmingham New Street
Crewe
Preston
Carlisle
Manchester Picadilly

 

[starrymarkb]

TGV Atlantique - double sets are 20 coaches and 4 power cars

 

[CallySleeper]

Ummm, a significant number of the platforms at Euston could take a 16 car formation.

Um, I wouldn't say a "significant number". A full CallySleeper should be 375m long. Add on to that ~19m for an additional loco dragging to/from Wembley, then you can see why the Sleepers are actually quite tight up against the signals in P1 or 15.

 

[theageofthetra]

How many were in the Long Thin Drag Hastings Diesel railtours in the 80's, didn't they have a couple of extra power cars to get them over Shap?

 

[Crossover]

I believe I read somewhere that 16 car Voyagers (4 x 4 car 220) are the longest possible of those units - only run as such under test, I believe - there is a picture in a book I have

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Only if at least one of them's dead. Maximum of 2x444 or 3x450 as they can't cope with any additional control units.

2x450 coupled to a 444?

Is there one control unit per coach or 1 per unit? Could they somehow lock-out a control unit to couple say 3 444s in an emergency?

 

[W230]

P2 Victoria is 16 car long, I believe. So Euston is not the only terminal. Though admittedly one platform wouldn't be mush use!

 

[Lrd]

2x450 coupled to a 444?

Doubt that would fit anywhere, probs only Waterloo International.

 

[Juniper Driver]

2x450 coupled to a 444?

Is there one control unit per coach or 1 per unit? Could they somehow lock-out a control unit to couple say 3 444s in an emergency?

Not true (it's not that complicated),you can isolate ACU's and TCU's.Doh cant remember at the moment how many acu's on a 444.I think it's 3 ACU'S and 2 TCU's? Someone correct me if im wrong.Space Phoenix i was replying to a previous post that you answered and that is not in the quotes beforehand.

Doubt that would fit anywhere, probs only Waterloo International.

It's been done before meaning you'd have to split it and shunt out.(With arrangement and agreement with the signalman)

 

[455driver]

Not true (it's not that complicated),you can isolate ACU's and TCU's.Doh cant remember at the moment how many acu's on a 444.I think it's 3 ACU'S and 2 TCU's? Someone correct me if im wrong. beforehand.

Yes there is an extra ACU on the 'buffet' coach on 444s.
Its also the coach with the universal toilet as well as a small toilet but I thought it better to put buffet rather than 2 bog coach!

 

[user15681]

P2 Victoria is 16 car long, I believe. So Euston is not the only terminal. Though admittedly one platform wouldn't be mush use!

Platform 2 at Victoria is 359m long (so could in theory take 17 cars). You say one long platform wouldn't be much use - but it is! Railtours and charters use P2 because it's the only one long enough for some of them.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Yes there is an extra ACU on the 'buffet' coach on 444s.
Its also the coach with the universal toilet as well as a small toilet but I thought it better to put buffet rather than 2 bog coach!

Thanks!

 

[Crossover]

Platform 2 at Victoria is 359m long (so could in theory take 17 cars). You say one long platform wouldn't be much use - but it is! Railtours and charters use P2 because it's the only one long enough for some of them.

Charters and railtours or something of a special case though - they don't need the same operational flexibility of being able to drop it into whatever platform on a regular basis

 

[34D]

Didn't Kestrel pull a test train that was 40 coaches long?

 

[455driver]

How long were the jumbo trains that ran from Paddington to Plymouth back in the 80s?
Was it something like 15 or 16 coaches hauled by a single class 50.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Presumably a TCU is a Traction Control Unit, with 1 per cab end. What does the A in ACU stand for (the CU is probably control unit)? Does an ACU have a similar function to a TCU but presumably it has nothing to do with the traction motors.

Would a 15 coach (3xclass 444) be possible in terms of platform infrastucture and signalling on the Waterloo to Weymouth line in service? It could probably fit into a platform at Waterloo and probably at Bournemouth but would mostl likely have

 

[Pumbaa]

Auxiliary. It would be possible at Waterloo and Bournemouth only, and not practical for either. And it won't happen!

 

[Juniper Driver]

Presumably a TCU is a Traction Control Unit, with 1 per cab end. What does the A in ACU stand for (the CU is probably control unit)? Does an ACU have a similar function to a TCU but presumably it has nothing to do with the traction motors.

Would a 15 coach (3xclass 444) be possible in terms of platform infrastucture and signalling on the Waterloo to Weymouth line in service? It could probably fit into a platform at Waterloo and probably at Bournemouth but would mostl likely have

Traction Control Unit and Aux Control Unit AFAIR but I may be wrong.15 coaches would need ACU's and TCU's isolated.Can happen in failure and assistance conditions.ACU's run the Air Con and all the other stuff.Battery Charging...

 

[SqUaShIe P]

I have seen a 20 car 321 once before on the GEML.
That was an 8 car that had failed and the only thing that was near by at the time was a 12 car.
I was at Romford at the time and the train was heading towards London (Probably went into Ilford Depot)