16-25 railcards

[Victoria]

I have a 16-25 railcard, and I don't think I've done much, if any, peak time traveling with it since the new ticket types were introduced. It always used to be that I could buy a 'saver return' ticket and use it even at peak times even though it's an off-peak ticket. This used to save me a huge amount, especially traveling to London.

Today, I went to book a ticket and it seems you can no longer use the railcard to buy off-peak tickets at peak times? Does anyone know if this is correct? I've hunted round the railcard website and National Rail, and nowhere seems to explicitly say that it's changed, but tickets & prices search function seems to quite definitely suggest that it has. I wish I'd known a few days ago so I could have booked advance tickets - I used to prefer the flexibility of the saver returns and it was great that they could be used on national journeys before 9am. But suddenly it seems to be an 'Anytime' ticket (albeit with a 1/3 discount, yes, but still almost twice what I would have paid for a saver return at the same time) or nothing.

Anyone able to shed any light? Looks like I'll need to be a lot more organised with advance tickets in future!

 

[Max]

Welcome to the forums Victoria! It's not actually the restrictions that have changed. It was actually down to the name changes that took place back in September. Some operating companies decided to rename Saver tickets as Anytime tickets (Northern Rail being a good example). This automatically changed the minimum fare of the ticket from £8 to £16, as the Anytime tickets carried the same restrictions as the old Standard Open Returns. The £8 minimum fare has basically been abolished, and the majority of fares now have a minimum fare of £16 before 10am, apart from Off-Peak. However, just as confusingly some Off-Peak tickets are also valid at any time! It really just depends upon which operating company prices the fare. What journeys did you used to regularly make before 10am with the 16-25 railcard? I suffer similar problems now. I used to often travel between Hull and York before 10am, and therefore paid the Saver fare which was in the region of £12. This has now shot up to £16!

This article written by one of our moderators may also shed some light on this.

 

[Victoria]

It's such a pain! I used to do Birmingham-Bristol TM return, and also Birmingham-Euston. Before, I would be able to get to Bristol and back for about £26 with my railcard, as a Saver Return ticket even before 9am, and a bit of playing around with National Rail shows that this is still roughly the fare for Off-Peak. Today, I was looking up times to do Birmingham-Bristol return on Tuesday, heading out before 9am, and it tells me that the only option is a 1/3 discounted Anytime ticket, which would have cost me approx £45! In the end I managed to book an Anytime Single for the outward portion, and an Advance single for the return, which made it £29-odd, so I don't feel too short-changed. But I can't believe that I would now only get 1/3 discount on peak tickets for traveling at peak times, rather than being able to use off-peak fares at peak times. It really does make such a difference. £26 I can afford, £45 really not!
The National Rail website doesn't seem to be able to give any definitive info as to what times things are valid - the general consensus seems to be 'type in your travel times and then we'll give you the prices of valid tickets' rather than them being able to give any info per se. Even with the railcard factored in, nothing would show up in the off-peak fares section until off-peak times.
Thanks for the link to the article, I'll have a read.

---> edit, have just been playing with National Rail and thankfully it would seem that for Birmingham-Euston, Off-Peak is valid before 9am with the 16-25 railcard, so that price remains unchanged. So it really does seem to be a route-by-route thing, unlike before.

 

[Max]

For your journey you could save a packet by splitting your tickets. The restrictions are extremely complicated, but I've managed to work out this as the cheapest:

Birmingham-Cheltenham Spa Anytime Return - £15.85 (without railcard, cheaper without due to min. fare)
Cheltenham Spa-Bristol TM Off-Peak Day Return - £7 (without railcard, cheaper without due to min. fare, valid after 0830)
TOTAL = £22.85

Or, if you want to pass Cheltenham after 0830, buy an Anytime Day Return without a railcard, priced at £12.60. The ridiculous thing is that it is still much cheaper, even though you aren't using your railcard.

Also, it's a good idea to check fares at www.nxeastcoast.com, as its interface shows ALL the fares, with or without a railcard.

 

[dan_atki]

The problem with this fare is the fact the meaning of restriction code 2V has changed rather than the railcard's minimum fare being at fault.

The Saver that was originally used for this flow has been turned into an Off Peak Return as it should have been but the associated restriction code (which primarily determines when travel may be undertaken) has changed.

Before (at least last year anyway), 2V (the code associated with the BHM-BRI SVR) meant 'Depart at or after 0845 Monday to Friday'. This has now changed to 'By any train except those scheduled to depart before 0930 Monday to Friday'. In effect you have lost 45 minutes validity on the ticket meaning if you wish to travel between 0845 and 0929 then you must now buy an Anytime Return ticket (Standard Open by old names) and hence the extra £20 odd for the privilege.

 

[Max]

The National Rail website doesn't seem to be able to give any definitive info as to what times things are valid - the general consensus seems to be 'type in your travel times and then we'll give you the prices of valid tickets' rather than them being able to give any info per se.

You could try Advantix Traveller. This progam lists all fares and all their specific restrictions, and is very easy to use.

 

[Victoria]

Thanks so much for all of that, especially the via Cheltenham fares, that's really useful to know. I hadn't come across the Advatix Traveller website before, will definitely be looking into that.

 

[Max]

Thanks so much for all of that, especially the via Cheltenham fares, that's really useful to know. I hadn't come across the Advatix Traveller website before, will definitely be looking into that.

It's not actually a website, it's a little program which installs onto your computer. This means that you don't even have to be connected to the internet to use it!

 

[Mojo]

I found a cheaper way to get from Birmingham to Bristol, but deleted it in case ATOC read this! PM me if you want it.

 

[yorkie]

Before (at least last year anyway), 2V (the code associated with the BHM-BRI SVR) meant 'Depart at or after 0845 Monday to Friday'. This has now changed to 'By any train except those scheduled to depart before 0930 Monday to Friday'. In effect you have lost 45 minutes validity on the ticket meaning if you wish to travel between 0845 and 0929 then you must now buy an Anytime Return ticket (Standard Open by old names) and hence the extra £20 odd for the privilege.

Correct, but for railcard holders, a Saver was valid AT ANY TIME on Virgin (overrulling the 0845 restriction).

So CrossCountry have changed the validity for railcard holders from any time to after 0930, meaning that travelling at peak time (or even shoulder-peak) costs a whopping £44.90 instead of £26.20 thanks to CrossCountry's greed. Of course, Max's advice is excellent and the ticket should be split at Cheltenham as all trains call there these days! (the only exceptions being some Summer Saturday services).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

---> edit, have just been playing with National Rail and thankfully it would seem that for Birmingham-Euston, Off-Peak is valid before 9am with the 16-25 railcard, so that price remains unchanged. So it really does seem to be a route-by-route thing, unlike before.

Yep that's right, Virgin still run that route.

But if Arriva (who run XC) ever get their hands on that route they will bump up the price for you considerably, in line with their stealth fare rises policy.

Arriva are embarrased to put their name to the CrossCountry franchise but they are the (glorified bus) company behind the massive rises on the Birmingham-Bristol route. They are rapidly gaining a reputation as the "worst" company in the entire country.

 

[dan_atki]

Correct, but for railcard holders, a Saver was valid AT ANY TIME on Virgin (overrulling the 0845 restriction).

Ah yes, completely forgot about that. Would the policy have changed on the 11th November last year upon franchise changeover (and notifications issued through Newsrail Express) or would it have waited until the new fares manual was published in January?

 

[Techniquest]

Haven't I been saying Arriva are the worst company in the country for years? Have people finally started listening and noticed giving them XC was a mistake?!

 

[yorkie]

Ah yes, completely forgot about that. Would the policy have changed on the 11th November last year upon franchise changeover (and notifications issued through Newsrail Express) or would it have waited until the new fares manual was published in January?

It changed when the NFM changed. Arriva did not admit they were going to abolish it when they took over, they said they would "review" it. I'd like to see a copy of this mythical review

 

[Mojo]

Haven't I been saying Arriva are the worst company in the country for years? Have people finally started listening and noticed giving them XC was a mistake?!

Virgin, National Express or whoever else won the franchise would be doing exactly the same thing now...

 

[Victoria]

I found a cheaper way to get from Birmingham to Bristol, but deleted it in case ATOC read this! PM me if you want it.

Thanks, I tried to PM you but the system told me I wasn't allowed to as I had less than 5 posts! That would be really useful to know though.

I installed the Advatix prog - so useful!

And ah, that would make perfect sense if it's actually Arriva who are behind all this... :roll: Fingers crossed they don't get Brum - Euston, I use that route a lot, and don't always have time to go the Marylebone via High Wycombe route instead. The cheap London peak fares with the railcard make a huge difference for me (and I'll be gutted in a little over a year's time when I finally turn 27!)

 

[Techniquest]

Virgin, National Express or whoever else won the franchise would be doing exactly the same thing now...

I swear operations were much better under Virgin. But then I've never liked Arriva. I still recall when I was reading an article on their winning it from Wales and Borders back in 2003 in RAIL. I bellowed "NO!!!" and violently shook the magazine! Indeed, that's about 5 years ago...