16-25 railcard Minimum fare

[tulip129]

Hi
I would be grateful for advice, I'm new here so apologies if asked previously

Can I buy a return train ticket, using 18-25 railcard, but not always board at the first station and leave the journey earlier?

In order to reach the minimum fare for journeys before 10am it needs to be above £12. Adding an earlier station and later station means it would reach the £12 threshold.

I'm assuming that's okay? These rules seem complicated though!

Many thanks!!

 

[CarrotPie]

Hi
I would be grateful for advice, I'm new here so apologies if asked previously

Can I buy a return train ticket, using 18-25 railcard, but not always board at the first station and leave the journey earlier?

In order to reach the minimum fare for journeys before 10am it needs to be above £12. Adding an earlier station and later station means it would reach the £12 threshold.

I'm assuming that's okay? These rules seem complicated though!

Many thanks!!

Yes, as long as it's not an Advance ticket, you can start and end your journey at any station along whichever permitted route you take. However, Advance tickets require you to start and end your journey at the stations specified on your ticket.

 

[Vexed]

Hi
I would be grateful for advice, I'm new here so apologies if asked previously

Can I buy a return train ticket, using 18-25 railcard, but not always board at the first station and leave the journey earlier?

In order to reach the minimum fare for journeys before 10am it needs to be above £12. Adding an earlier station and later station means it would reach the £12 threshold.

I'm assuming that's okay? These rules seem complicated though!

Many thanks!!

There's nothing wrong with this if you obey the time restrictions as most (but not all, let us know the exact journey and we can check) single and return fares allow for break of journey but I think that means this won't actally save you money? You need to be careful about the minimum fare as for journeys before 10am fares can be discounted but not below £12. What I mean by this is a fare of for example £14.00 with a 16-25 Railcard applied can be either £12 (valid all day) or if it has the full discount it would be around £9.30/£9.35 (I can't remember the exact rounding rules) but because it's below £12 it's not valid for travel before 10am.

This is a screenshot from National Rail for a journey from St Albans City to Bedford with a 16-25 Railcard applied. Before 10am the price is £12 but after 10am the price is £9.90. Both have a part railcard discount as the full fare is £14.90 for a Off Peak Day Single.

Using the £9.90 ticket before 10am is not allowed due to the railcard restrictions.

 

[tulip129]

Ah I see. I will check but by adding a previous station and later one the fare comes to £12.60, then with discount is £8.35.

The journey is to get to school so is before 8am

 

[BazingaTribe]

Ah I see. I will check but by adding a previous station and later one the fare comes to £12.60, then with discount is £8.35.

The journey is to get to school so is before 8am

The total price will only be discounted to £12 regardless when buying a ticket for 8am, not the £8.35.

The Railcard can only discount a fare to £12 for peak travel, not take a £12 fare below that number with an applied discount.

 

[tulip129]

Oh dear....I hadn't realised the fare can't go below £12

Thanks for clarifying, that's very helpful

 

[Haywain]

by adding a previous station and later one the fare comes to £12.60

Whereas by not adding those stations the fare would be £12.00 (the minimum fare). Do you really want to pay a bit extra?

 

[blimmo]

Oh dear....I hadn't realised the fare can't go below £12

Thanks for clarifying, that's very helpful

To be fair the terms are very unclear about this. Safe to assume when unclear the ToCs will interpret it in their favour though!

 

[tulip129]

Yes! So frustrating! I'm so pleased I asked here and thank you to those that replied. I'll not bother with the railcard and feel thankful that whilst I'm not saving a couple of pounds, at least I'm not going to get a fine for having the wrong ticket lol

 

[Haywain]

What is the journey you are making? If you tell us that we can advise properly.

 

[BazingaTribe]

To be fair the terms are very unclear about this. Safe to assume when unclear the ToCs will interpret it in their favour though!

It's not unclear. Peak tickets cost a minimum of £12 with a Railcard, even if the discount would normally take them below that figure. The screenshot shows the timings, and I'm assuming OP is going St Alban's to Bedford and back, but this is not particularly complicated.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Mar 2026 ==

Yes! So frustrating! I'm so pleased I asked here and thank you to those that replied. I'll not bother with the railcard and feel thankful that whilst I'm not saving a couple of pounds, at least I'm not going to get a fine for having the wrong ticket lol

Use the Railcard -- just be aware that you'll be paying the £12 fee every day, which is still a bit cheaper than it would be otherwise.

 

[Vexed]

The screenshot shows the timings, and I'm assuming OP is going St Alban's to Bedford and back

No, that was just an example I used to illustrate the point that the fare changes in journey planners at 10am. It's just some random stations I came up with off the top of my head where I knew fares hover around £12

 

[BazingaTribe]

No, that was just an example I used to illustrate the point that the fare changes in journey planners at 10am. It's just some random stations I came up with off the top of my head where I knew fares hover around £12

Fair enough! Bedford caught my eye as it was where I spent my teenage years.

But I think it's clear that the minimum £12 is the minimum OP will pay and there won't be any saving even if they add two stops on either end

 

[Hadders]

With a 16-25 Railcard a minimum discounted fare of £12 applies on Monday to Friday before 10:00.
The minimum discounted fare does not apply to Advance tickets (not to be confused to walk-up tickets purchased in advance of travel)
The £12 minimum discounted fare does not apply in July or August.

 

[blimmo]

It's not unclear. Peak tickets cost a minimum of £12 with a Railcard, even if the discount would normally take them below that figure.

4.5. The 16-25 Railcard has a minimum fare that applies from 04.30 and 10.00 Monday to Friday. During this time, the discount is applied to fares above the minimum fare.

One could certainly read that as a fare of £12.30 would have the discount applied and therefore be reduced to £8.20. In fact if I didn't know how it was actually done I would read it like that.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

The journey is to get to school so is before 8am

If it's to go to school, you may want to bear in mind that there's also the 16-17 saver railcard (https://www.16-17saver.co.uk/) which has the obvious problem that for most purposes it's for people who are 16 or 17 and no older, but as far as I can tell does not have the time limits of the 16-25 railcard, and also gives a more generous discount.

But of course, many people stay at school until they're 18, so this may be of no help to you.

 

[Wallsendmag]

One could certainly read that as a fare of £12.30 would have the discount applied and therefore be reduced to £8.20. In fact if I didn't know how it was actually done I would read it like that.

You could also think sunderland were a football team but it's not correct.

 

[pelli]

4.5. The 16-25 Railcard has a minimum fare that applies from 04.30 and 10.00 Monday to Friday. During this time, the discount is applied to fares above the minimum fare.

One could certainly read that as a fare of £12.30 would have the discount applied and therefore be reduced to £8.20. In fact if I didn't know how it was actually done I would read it like that.

I would argue that the first sentence is reasonably clear, and, if you think about it, the correct interpretation is the sensible one that avoids anomalies like the topic of this thread. However, if after the first sentence, the reader is unsure about what "minimum fare" means (is it the minimum discounted fare, i.e. the least amount that the discounted price will be, or is it the minimum original fare, i.e. the cheapest ticket that is eligible to be discounted?), then the second sentence is bound to leave them sure of the wrong conclusion.

(Of course, the second sentence is technically correct: A Railcard discount is being applied to all fares above the minimum fare, albeit not at the standard percentage for tickets just above the minimum fare, but the percentage is not stated at all in the terms and conditions, so there is no contradiction there! However, if we want to be technical then the second sentence is incomplete because railcard discounts can also be applied to fares below the minimum fare, even though it results in the railcard-discounted ticket being more expensive than the undiscounted one - see for example this Reddit post, whose URL I had to modify to bypass the forum's profanity filter, or search a short journey on one of the last surviving Mixing Deck journey planners.)

I note that the Railcard terms and conditions were updated in May 2018, with the relevant clause changing from
"7. A £12 minimum fare applies for journeys starting between 4.30am-10am Monday to Friday excluding Advance Fares. This minimum fare does not apply on Public Holidays or throughout July and August."
to
"4.5. The 16-25 Railcard has a minimum fare that applies between 04.30 - 10.00 hours Monday to Friday. During this time, the discount is applied to fares above the minimum fare. This minimum fare does not apply to: 4.5.1.Advance tickets; or 4.5.2. journeys on public holidays; or 4.5.3. journeys during July and August. At the time of printing, the minimum fare is £12. The minimum fare is subject to change during the validity of your Railcard - see 16-25railcard.co.uk for the most up to date information."
Perhaps the person/committee that made the change did not understand, or realise the potential ambiguity in, how the "borderline" cases are handled.

Interestingly, the Network Railcard terms and conditions does not contain the additional misleading sentence: "4.3 A minimum fare applies to all journeys Monday to Friday, excluding public holidays. At the time of printing, the minimum fare is £13. The minimum fare is subject to change during the validity of your Railcard - see network-railcard.co.uk for the most up to date information." This is despite a similar update having been made, from the earlier phrasing "7. A £13 minimum fare applies to all journeys Monday to Friday, excluding public holidays. A £1 minimum fare applies to child fares at all times. Travelcard minimum fares also apply - see minimum fares page for details. Please note, minimum fares are subject to change during the validity of your Railcard."

 

[Snow1964]

One could certainly read that as a fare of £12.30 would have the discount applied and therefore be reduced to £8.20. In fact if I didn't know how it was actually done I would read it like that.

You are correct in reading clause 4.5 in common english

clearly says "the discount is applied to fares above the minimum fare"

What it doesn't say is a discount might be small, because it will only reduce fare to £12. And elsewhere it refers to discount as being third.

It is badly worded, because it can be read as won't get discount if fare is £12 or less, but will get the discount on any fare that is over £12 (without saying anything about restricting the discount amount).

If a shop offers say 20% off on purchases over £50, it is normal to expect it to apply to whole amount, ie spend £50.01, pay £40.01. Not then find another clause saying something like £47 minimum. Not surprising people used to other discounts and reading railcard terminology for first time, do not understand it.

 

[blimmo]

I would argue that the first sentence is reasonably clear, and, if you think about it, the correct interpretation is the sensible one that avoids anomalies like the topic of this thread. However, if after the first sentence, the reader is unsure about what "minimum fare" means (is it the minimum discounted fare, i.e. the least amount that the discounted price will be, or is it the minimum original fare, i.e. the cheapest ticket that is eligible to be discounted?), then the second sentence is bound to leave them sure of the wrong conclusion.

(Of course, the second sentence is technically correct: A Railcard discount is being applied to all fares above the minimum fare, albeit not at the standard percentage for tickets just above the minimum fare, but the percentage is not stated at all in the terms and conditions, so there is no contradiction there! However, if we want to be technical then the second sentence is incomplete because railcard discounts can also be applied to fares below the minimum fare, even though it results in the railcard-discounted ticket being more expensive than the undiscounted one - see for example this Reddit post, whose URL I had to modify to bypass the forum's profanity filter, or search a short journey on one of the last surviving Mixing Deck journey planners.)

I note that the Railcard terms and conditions were updated in May 2018, with the relevant clause changing from
"7. A £12 minimum fare applies for journeys starting between 4.30am-10am Monday to Friday excluding Advance Fares. This minimum fare does not apply on Public Holidays or throughout July and August."
to
"4.5. The 16-25 Railcard has a minimum fare that applies between 04.30 - 10.00 hours Monday to Friday. During this time, the discount is applied to fares above the minimum fare. This minimum fare does not apply to: 4.5.1.Advance tickets; or 4.5.2. journeys on public holidays; or 4.5.3. journeys during July and August. At the time of printing, the minimum fare is £12. The minimum fare is subject to change during the validity of your Railcard - see 16-25railcard.co.uk for the most up to date information."
Perhaps the person/committee that made the change did not understand, or realise the potential ambiguity in, how the "borderline" cases are handled.

Interestingly, the Network Railcard terms and conditions does not contain the additional misleading sentence: "4.3 A minimum fare applies to all journeys Monday to Friday, excluding public holidays. At the time of printing, the minimum fare is £13. The minimum fare is subject to change during the validity of your Railcard - see network-railcard.co.uk for the most up to date information." This is despite a similar update having been made, from the earlier phrasing "7. A £13 minimum fare applies to all journeys Monday to Friday, excluding public holidays. A £1 minimum fare applies to child fares at all times. Travelcard minimum fares also apply - see minimum fares page for details. Please note, minimum fares are subject to change during the validity of your Railcard."

Indeed, the fact that the second sentence appears to be a clarification but also appears to be clarifying it to the incorrect interpretation is the reason I think it is really unclear.