16-25 Railcard Colleges List

[bluenoxid]

Hello

This might interest some people, so I thought I might post it here. I was wondering if anyone had experience of this from both sides of the ticketing counter.

http://www.fixmytransport.com/campaigns/improve-their-railcard-application-p

I am personally concerned that they have established a list without saying anything and will cause issues if it is only partially implemented across the country. The stamp only applies to mature students.

Refused to issue a rail card for a mature student despite having all necessary documentation. They refused on the basis that the stamp I had from my college was not on their list. When I showed them that the college was part of a University they still refused. They have now invalidated my tickets for travel tomorrow as they are advanced purchase with a rail card. The course is a full time BSc course

Apparently South West Trains acted correctly in refusing the issue of the railcard. ATOC have a list of colleges that are eligible for railcards. This list was brought in in Sept 2012. The list is incomplete and seems to be being updated on an individual basis. I believe the situation is discrimminatory as you will be refused a railcard on the basis of this incomplete list. My college has now been added to the list "on review" I will challenge the legality of this and feedback

 

[railboy]

This isn't surprising as they do this on the buses as well. My sister is in a similar postion where Lothian Buses have a list and her college isn't on it. Shouldn't a student discount apply to all students regardless of where they study? I certainly think so.

 

[bewildered]

It is rather common and will get more and more frequent as the new private university's spread. I work for a private university and we have locations across the whole of the UK. We've had reports from students in the past but our student services team spoke directly to National Rail or someone of that type who then filtered this information down to all TOCs

 

[WillPS]

You normally get a student card for the university your course is franchised from, don't you?

In those circumstances, I'd simply walk in to the main university and ask them to stamp it. They're not going to check beyond asking for a Student ID in reality.

 

[34D]

This isn't surprising as they do this on the buses as well. My sister is in a similar postion where Lothian Buses have a list and her college isn't on it. Shouldn't a student discount apply to all students regardless of where they study? I certainly think so.

Not at all. Shops etc that give student discounts (in the main) do this to NUS members because of the commercial arrangements between the shop and the NUS, not to be nice to students per se.

 

[krus_aragon]

Not at all. Shops etc that give student discounts (in the main) do this to NUS members because of the commercial arrangements between the shop and the NUS, not to be nice to students per se.

That's assuming the shops specify that the student use an NUS-Extra card. This card is marketed by the NUS as 'the' student discount card, and a student has to pay the NUS £12 for one. (Funds go direct to the NUS, not the local student union.) I'm not sure that the NUS actually makes such commercial arrangements with specific retailers.

Not every shop insists on students having the 'extra' card in the first place. Many shops are happy to accept any valid college or university membership card. In those cases they feel that the reduced profit on the items is worth the greater turnover of tempting students to shop there regularly.

 

[island]

Not at all. Shops etc that give student discounts (in the main) do this to NUS members because of the commercial arrangements between the shop and the NUS, not to be nice to students per se.

Maybe or maybe not. For some shops it is a case of price discrimination, attracting people to purchase items or services which they wouldn't otherwise purchase and which would otherwise go unsold.

 

[bb21]

I have very rarely been refused a student discount on the basis that an NUS Extra card is needed. They are however handy if I want to purchase online with a student discount as some retailers only cater for NUS Extra card numbers.

This is the first time I have heard of a "list" and I have never seen any ticket office staff checking application forms against such a list.

 

[barrykas]

This is the first time I have heard of a "list" and I have never seen any ticket office staff checking application forms against such a list.

The list is in (or should that be on?) The Manual and was introduced with the change to the rules regarding applying for a 16-25 Railcard as a Mature Student with NFM13 (i.e. 2nd September).

In general, I'd guess that most Ticket Offices wouldn't check the list 95% of the time unless they didn't recognise the name of the institution.

It's also worth noting that you can finally apply online as a mature student, though you need to print out a declaration, get it completed by your institution and scan it along with a copy of your Uni/College ID or NUS card, then upload it as part of the application process.

You can also register the details of a Railcard bought elsewhere against an online account, which allows you to renew it online.

You still can't get a three year card as a Mature Student, however.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[p123]

This isn't surprising as they do this on the buses as well. My sister is in a similar postion where Lothian Buses have a list and her college isn't on it. Shouldn't a student discount apply to all students regardless of where they study? I certainly think so.

I understand the Lothian Buses discount is only available to students studying in Edinburgh.

It would be silly to offer student discount to a UCL student visiting Edinburgh for a few days, however it is a bit unfair on students at Livingston-based colleges who likely have a need to travel within Edinburgh often.

 

[Greenback]

I remember how upset one chap was that I refused to accept that his occasional attendance at the Reading School of Chinese Medicine entitled him to a railcard.

Is that establishment on the ATOC list?

 

[island]

I remember how upset one chap was that I refused to accept that his occasional attendance at the Reading School of Chinese Medicine entitled him to a railcard.

Is that establishment on the ATOC list?

Unsurprisingly not.

 

[thelongestroad]

As far as I understand it, there was a problem with people making up obscure universities and forging stamps.

The ATOC Railcard Team are very helpful though. Usually all it requires is a phone call and the institution can be added.

 

[maniacmartin]

At my university hardly anyone had NUS Extra cards, and shops in the city accepted our university card as proof of studenthood.

Outlets in other towns that gave "student discount" then refused to discount my purchases as I didn't have an NUS Extra card, even if their promotional material didn't specify that one was necessary. I did have a non-extra NUS card though, which I beleive NUS give (or at least gave) out for free, but virtually no outlets accept that either.

ATOC should really specify the list of eligible institutions on their website if such a list exists. Their website just says "recognised college or university"

 

[34D]

As far as I understand it, there was a problem with people making up obscure universities and forging stamps.

The ATOC Railcard Team are very helpful though. Usually all it requires is a phone call and the institution can be added.

Would it be fair to say that most of the 'established' universities are on this list?

 

[thelongestroad]

Would it be fair to say that most of the 'established' universities are on this list?

Absolutely, the list is comprehensive. It includes tertiary colleges and universities.

Just not the majority of vague ones...

 

[tony_mac]

Absolutely, the list is comprehensive. It includes tertiary colleges and universities.

Just not the majority of vague ones...

I think I would probably put the Northern College of Acupuncture into the 'vague' category. Although their degrees are verified by the University of Middlesex, the previous validation by the University of Wales was not without controversy, and appeared to contribute to the problems there.

This list of approved places is...

Any place of study that is on the database of the Department for Education for England and Wales, or included in the Scottish Executive's list of all maintained and independent places of study, or that holds Highly Trusted Sponsor status from the UK Border Agency or is on the list of establishments accredited by the British Council.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Perhaps it's more revelant to many people - they also appear to have removed the ISIC card as a valid form of student i.d. (without any specific notification, that I can see, it's just disappeared).

So what about institutions in another country? I have a friend visiting soon who would like to buy a railcard.
I had assumed that an ISIC would be enough, but now the form needs to be stamped instead.
Are they going to refuse to sell it because the University of Dublin is not on their list?

I will try and get an answer via email, but is there a better way to get a quick response?

 

[Butts]

At least Mature Students like myself can now apply online - albeit you still have to get the declaration signed and then can scan it for the application.

I also noticed the replacement fee has gone up from £5 to £10

The University of Edinburgh is also on the "approved list" - perhaps it has gone "Russell Group Only"

 

[bb21]

Perhaps it's more revelant to many people - they also appear to have removed the ISIC card as a valid form of student i.d. (without any specific notification, that I can see, it's just disappeared).

Me too. Hugely annoying as this just creates extra hassle.

I ordered my NUS Extra with ISIC for this year (cost £14.99 :roll specifically for this purpose.

 

[tony_mac]

With certain Student Unions (dishonestly?) selling ISIC cards to staff, I can see why they have removed it. It would be nice if they explicitly stated it though, rather than leaving people to search for it.
They have also made the mature student form more detailed - it now asks for staff names and phone numbers, when it used to only ask for a signature and stamp.

I've got someone to ask on facebook, they seem to provide a faster response there (although not always a correct response!).

If they haven't sneakily removed the ability for overseas students to buy railcards (which I fear they have!), then they have certainly made it much more difficult.

 

[bluenoxid]

Thank you for the help and discussion. I have asked ATOC to supply the list and I am hoping that they will publish it on their website to remove any ambiguity on the matter.

 

[TUC]

I think I would probably put the Northern College of Acupuncture into the 'vague' category. Although their degrees are verified by the University of Middlesex, the previous validation by the University of Wales was not without controversy, and appeared to contribute to the problems there.

This list of approved places is...


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Perhaps it's more revelant to many people - they also appear to have removed the ISIC card as a valid form of student i.d. (without any specific notification, that I can see, it's just disappeared).

So what about institutions in another country? I have a friend visiting soon who would like to buy a railcard.
I had assumed that an ISIC would be enough, but now the form needs to be stamped instead.
Are they going to refuse to sell it because the University of Dublin is not on their list?

Moreover what about institutions in Northern Ireland? If its based on lists from England, Wales and Scotland, does that mean students in other parts of the UK aren't eligible? How could that be defensible?

 

[barrykas]

Moreover what about institutions in Northern Ireland? If its based on lists from England, Wales and Scotland, does that mean students in other parts of the UK aren't eligible? How could that be defensible?

The criteria given on the relevant page in The Manual is:

The list below (UK Universities & Colleges) contains all the establishments that TOCs consider fit to endorse application forms from Mature Students. If you are unsure as to whether the institution that has endorsed a mature student’s application form is one that the rail industry recognises, you can use this list to check. If an institution is not on the list then the application may be declined.

The list is compiled from the databases of the English Department for Education, Scottish Colleges, Universities Scotland, the Scottish Funding Council, the Welsh Government, the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales, NIDirect (for Northern Ireland) and Colleges Northern Ireland (CNI). ATOC updates the list on an ongoing basis.

And I suspect part of the reasoning behind changing the rules would be to do with (potential) revenue abstraction as a result of International Mature Students getting Railcards which ATOC never intended them to be entitled to.

YMMV, IANAL, etc

 

[bb21]

And I suspect part of the reasoning behind changing the rules would be to do with (potential) revenue abstraction as a result of International Mature Students getting Railcards which ATOC never intended them to be entitled to.

Surely then ISIC cards can still be valid when issued to students of eligible institutions, as they are displayed on the card itself. No need to withdraw them completely.

NUS cards and ISIC cards used to be issued separately so by explicitly allowing ISIC cards but not NUS cards as an eligible form of ID, the intention could not have been to prevent international students from obtaining a Railcard.

 

[tony_mac]

Can someone ask on Facebook if students from outside the UK can still get a railcard?
I tried to do it, but it doesn't appear, and I'm not sure where that particular privacy setting might be.

I tried email - it took a week for them to just cut and paste the terms and conditions!

 

[callum9999]

Surely then ISIC cards can still be valid when issued to students of eligible institutions, as they are displayed on the card itself. No need to withdraw them completely.

NUS cards and ISIC cards used to be issued separately so by explicitly allowing ISIC cards but not NUS cards as an eligible form of ID, the intention could not have been to prevent international students from obtaining a Railcard.

Presumably because they're awful forms of ID. It's easy for anyone to get ISIC cards without being a student (I've had 2 and haven't had to prove I'm a student once) - especially as you put your own photo in. And NUS Extra cards aren't much more secure - they don't seem to check that you ACTUALLY go to the university you claim you do when you apply.