15X Fleet future & withdrawal

[Rail Quest]

What, precisely, about Sprinters is “disgusting”. OK - they’re reaching the end of their life (happens to us all) and lack a few mod-cons but (in general ) they work and do the job they’re needed for. If you’re referring to the inadequate provision of stock (ie a 2 car train turning up where 5 are needed or even diagrammed) I can see your point a bit more, but provision of new stock has had an unfortunate tendency to exacerbate that problem, rather than alleviate it.

As someone who travels on 150 and 156 sprinters often, they're incredibly noisy, especially in summer when all windows are open because of the lack of Aircon. All of the 150s and 156s in Northern are now in a pretty poor state in that they always look dirty (even after cleaning), have bits falling off and rattling everywhere, and I have experienced a couple of failures on units that have led to cancellations. The 150s with Northern suffer from having terrible seating, some of the worst I've ever used with regards to leg room and general space. The Northern 156s, whilst slightly more comfortable due to consistent 2+2 seating, suffer from having really low down seats and arm rests that make them far worse for me, a tall person, than the 195s. Both types also aren't particularly good at soaking up crowds, the 150s because of the 2+3 seating leaving limited standing space, and the 156s because of the door end configuration. Both classes are also very slow to accelerate which makes frequent stopping, longer distance journeys, particularly those on Buxton and Mid Cheshire lines feel very slow. The 150/1s also take the prize for the least reliable train toilets I've ever come across.

Of the things mentioned, the interior noise levels are the thing I dislike the most about them and I would personally take any civity over either a 150 or 156 any day of the week for any type of service.

Trains are not fashion accessories like many people treat cars; many won't have the old model etc.

Trains are built to last and plenty will be perfectly good for what they do, yes they may not have aircon or USB sockets etc, little noisy, bit tired and dated interiorwise. These reasons are not neccassarily enough to scrap them.

Trains may not need to be fashion accessories, but they need to be nice enough that people enjoy using them somewhat. I know so many people in the north west on the diesel commuter lines operated by sprinters who do not use the railways at all. When I ask them why, one thing that always crops up is that the trains are "loud, dirty and smelly". Northern have that initiative to boost its passenger numbers in the coming years: the operator needs better trains to get rid of this stigma and drive people (pun intended) out of their cars.

The tender to replace the Northern examples is long overdue and I cannot wait to see the back of these units.

 

[quantinghome]

It's commonplace for trains to be in service for over 40 years and not uncommon for well-designed and maintained trains to be in service for over 50 years.

Bakerloo line trains are 54 years old with no confirmed order to replace them.

Intercity 125s will finally be retired from UK service in 2028, 52 years after they were launched.

The 15Xs are showing their age and of course in an ideal world they would be being replaced right now. But prolonging their demise by another few years wouldn't be out of keeping with UK railway practice.

 

[Snow1964]

It's commonplace for trains to be in service for over 40 years and not uncommon for well-designed and maintained trains to be in service for over 50 years.

Well maintained trains do not regularly break down, have unmaintained ventilation / aircon, windows that rattle, seats that sag etc.
These are signs of mediocre or poor maintenance

The 15Xs are showing their age and of course in an ideal world they would be being replaced right now. But prolonging their demise by another few years wouldn't be out of keeping with UK railway practice.

Actually selective railway practice, some fleets, but not worst, got replaced eg Anglia.

The thing that some forget is competition has moved on, sprinters were modern in 1980s, but world has moved on. Nowadays a noisy diesel sprinter with windows open, letting fumes in, seems primitive compared to almost silent modern electric cars and electric buses.

 

[MichaelTrains]

What, precisely, about Sprinters is “disgusting”. OK - they’re reaching the end of their life (happens to us all) and lack a few mod-cons but (in general ) they work and do the job they’re needed for. If you’re referring to the inadequate provision of stock (ie a 2 car train turning up where 5 are needed or even diagrammed) I can see your point a bit more, but provision of new stock has had an unfortunate tendency to exacerbate that problem, rather than alleviate it.

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And the platform /train interface on those would fail UK accessibility regulation point blank!

The 150s for one, they should have gone with the pacers.

Then you have two car 195s doing Leeds to Chester via Bradford and Manchester.

Leaving everyone fighting to get on a packed full -service.

I've said for years in here that this wouldn't happen in London.

 

[JonathanH]

I've said for years in here that this wouldn't happen in London.

As already pointed out, there are older trains than 150s and 156s on the Bakerloo line, so it does happen in London. Fleet replacement is cyclical.

Much modern rolling stock is designed around the idea that people will have to stand. 195s are a case in point.

 

[Zomboid]

Trains that aren't long enough also happens in London/ the South East. They might be 8 carriages long rather than 2, though.

 

[quantinghome]

Trains that aren't long enough also happens in London/ the South East. They might be 8 carriages long rather than 2, though.

Indeed. Having commuted to and in London for a few years, then Leeds, the volumes of passengers are rather different but the density of much the same.