159 future and possible replacements

[James_D]

Sorry if there is already a thread on this, but when changing trains at Wimbledon on a daily commute and seeing all those 2x3 car formation of 159's zipping through in 3rd rail areas for a good deal of their journeys out of Waterloo, i couldn't help but think the 159 fleet transferring to the Northern franchise would give a massive boost for my native North.

Surely something like a 2x Class 769 with DC shoegear would be more appropriate? I know the Western Sprinters sometimes run in 9/10 car formations but how many diagrams is that for?

Or how about this! Converting the 455's to DEMU's! Perish the thought!

 

[NoOnesFool]

Put down the crayons.

 

[swt_passenger]

There was a similar thread in December:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...t-to-replace-158s-and-159s-on-swr-gwr.197073/
You must have missed all the SWR peak time 9 and even 10 car formations. Or is that what you meant by “Western”?
In any case, there’s been many previous suggestions to introduce longer bimodes to SWR and cascade the 159s and 158s away to use them elsewhere in more traditional DMU areas, even with GWR, IIRC.

But they’re getting old now. Wherever they went they’d probably need replacing very quickly. Many people expect they’d be replaced in the next Southwestern franchise starting in about 5 years time, assuming there’s’ still franchises by then. If an order was to go in by the next franchisee they’d be replaced at an age of about 36-38 years old.

Then there’s just been an announcement that Northern won’t be accepting any more of London’s cast offs...

 

[popeter45]

the replacement will be new stock rather than converted old stock in my view (and hopefully not another attempt by anybody to try the class 180's)

feel a good choice may be a DC Bi mode AT200 or even AT300

 

[supervc-10]

A bi-mode 444 would be perfect IMO...

 

[swt_passenger]

A bi-mode 444 would be perfect IMO...

That’s what’s usually been suggested over the years. Nowadays it would probably be a down rated 802 or 810 with end gangways...

(I think this should have been in speculation though...)

 

[Nym]

That’s what’s usually been suggested over the years. Nowadays it would probably be a down rated 802 or 810 with end gangways...

(I think this should have been in speculation though...)

And why not an AT200?

 

[swt_passenger]

And why not an AT200?

No real reason. All speculation is possible, and equally valid!

 

[4-SUB 4732]

So what we all want is something like a 4-car 185, where the vehicles are 25m in length, and for one of the four vehicles not to be diesel but to be a third rail super coach. It’s roughly 10 coaches and does the trick of a normal train; allowing some to work Three Rivers if needed.

 

[VT 390]

If the Battery 350 ever goes ahead and they could find batteries which had long enough charge I think these fitted with 3rd rail electrification equipment could be good if new stock was not ordered (It is probably quicker to order new stock). This would mean they would be similar to the 450's which South Western Railway already operate.
Depending how long it is before a replacement for the 159's comes along I think they should go to Northern to replace some or all of their older units such as the 150's.

 

[swt_passenger]

If the Battery 350 ever goes ahead and they could find batteries which had long enough charge I think these fitted with 3rd rail electrification equipment could be good if new stock was not ordered (It is probably quicker to order new stock). This would mean they would be similar to the 450's which South Western Railway already operate.
Depending how long it is before a replacement for the 159's comes along I think they should go to Northern to replace some or all of their older units such as the 150's.

159s are only about 4 years younger than 150s - if you started planning for it today you’d probably end up replacing near 40 year old DMUs with 36 year old.

So 158/159 will be nearly life expired when they leave SWR, assuming procurement was to start at the next franchise award, because there’s no likelihood the current franchise will be in any position to change them.

 

[Chester1]

159s are only about 4 years younger than 150s - if you started planning for it today you’d probably end up replacing near 40 year old DMUs with 36 year old.

So 158/159 will be nearly life expired when they leave SWR, assuming procurement was to start at the next franchise award, because there’s no likelihood the current franchise will be in any position to change them.

There are 50 TfW and EMR 158s going off lease in the next 3 years which makes it even less likely. Northern could replace every 155 and 156 with cascaded DMUs before SWR releases the first 159.

 

[TXMISTA]

Sorry if there is already a thread on this, but when changing trains at Wimbledon on a daily commute and seeing all those 2x3 car formation of 159's zipping through in 3rd rail areas for a good deal of their journeys out of Waterloo, i couldn't help but think the 159 fleet transferring to the Northern franchise would give a massive boost for my native North.

Surely something like a 2x Class 769 with DC shoegear would be more appropriate? I know the Western Sprinters sometimes run in 9/10 car formations but how many diagrams is that for?

Or how about this! Converting the 455's to DEMU's! Perish the thought!

769s from London all the way down to the West Country wouldn’t be pleasant. Can’t imagine too many passengers would be happy with that idea. 158/9s are very comfortable (arguably more so than 444s imo). As someone else mentioned, I think a new fleet would be the best option for when the Sprinters reach the end of their life. Some sort of DEMU would definitely be a smart option.

 

[Tobbes]

If there's new stock to be procured, it would be hard to understand why you wouldn't choose bi-modes. This becomes even more relevant if there's going to be serious push to electrify the mainlines out through 2040, in which case the LSWR main would be electrified (presumably using 25kV AC equipment from Worting Junction to Exeter as the beginnings of 25kV conversion of the 750V system as it becomes life expired...). It would be interesting to see what sort of acceleration 802s could provide on diesel and then on 25kV to, e.g., Salisbury, especially with clearer runs to Waterloo post-CR2.