158 derails at Welshpool

[merlodlliw]

Mishap at Welshpool

On 24 November, one coach of the 18:09 Birmingham - Aberystwyth and Pwllheli train became derailed at low speed outside Welshpool station. It is not altogether clear what happened, but it appears that the train departed from Welshpool before some passengers had alighted, as one or more doors had failed to open. The train crew were made aware of this soon after departure, and decided to set the train back into the platform; the turnouts at each end of the passing loops on the Cambrian lines are effectively 'sprung' to allow trains to 'trail' through them after which they return to the correct position for the next train in the other direction. If a train were to reverse when only part of it has passed the points, undesirable things would happen ...

article from http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm put up with permission for info

 

[Proud Salopian]

Was big news in the Shropshire media. Bit of a cock-up by the sounds of things.

 

[yorkie]

ssengers had alighted, as one or more doors had failed to open. The train crew were made aware of this soon after departure, and decided to set the train back into the platform

That's for signallers to decide, not the crew!

If this is the case it should be relatively straightforward for RAIB.

 

[westcoaster]

I doubt raib would be involved, to be honest.

 

[NightatLaira]

These sorts of stories are the saddest for me tbh...

Someone could well lose their job for all of this - and all for attempting to rectify an unfortunate and awkward situation for all concerned... No doubt there will be guards who will read this who will robotically spout the rule book, and I appreciate that reversing without signaller's permission is a big no-no... But I can picture the scene - several irate travellers, a flummoxed guard, a helpful train driver - and the conclusion: a nasty mess!

 

[Tomnick]

I doubt raib would be involved, to be honest.

The RAIB requires notification of any "derailments on lines open to traffic or which
block running lines open to traffic". (from this document). Whether they subsequently investigate is down to them!

 

[ralphchadkirk]

That's for signallers to decide, not the crew!

If this is the case it should be relatively straightforward for RAIB.

We don't have the full details, but if they did set back without the signallers permission then I expect the book will be thrown at them. But as I said, we don't know entirely what went on at Welshpool which caused this.

 

[merlodlliw]

This is what THE press said, for info

It does not say which direction the train was travelling, forward or reversing back in this version. But the picture says it all.

http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2010/11/25/derailment-outside-welshpool-railway-station/

 

[blue sabre]

This is what THE press said, for info

It does not say which direction the train was travelling, forward or reversing back in this version. But the picture says it all.

http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2010/11/25/derailment-outside-welshpool-railway-station/

Can anyone explain how those type of points work? I'm sure it's really obvious but I cant picture how reversing after part of the train has passed them could cause a derailment.

 

[ainsworth74]

Can anyone explain how those type of points work?

As I understand it, the points will normally be set as seen in that picture. When a train (like this one) wants to pass over them it simply drives over the points. This works because the points are configured in such a way that means the wheels passing over them force them to the correct position. But once the leading wheels are over the points they switch back. Normally not an issue as the next wheel set forces them to the correct position again and so on until the train is clear. However it looks like in this case the train stopped then reversed back over the points, which were set as seen in the photo (because unless a wheel set is forcing them into a different position they will always be set as shown in the photo) causing the wheels to follow the wrong road and derail.

That's not a very technical explanation but hopefully helps you out.

 

[blue sabre]

As I understand it, the points will normally be set as seen in that picture. When a train (like this one) wants to pass over them it simply drives over the points. This works because the points are configured in such a way that means the wheels passing over them force them to the correct position. But once the leading wheels are over the points they switch back. Normally not an issue as the next wheel set forces them to the correct position again and so on until the train is clear. However it looks like in this case the train stopped then reversed back over the points, which were set as seen in the photo (because unless a wheel set is forcing them into a different position they will always be set as shown in the photo) causing the wheels to follow the wrong road and derail.

That's not a very technical explanation but hopefully helps you out.

Ah yeah, that makes sense, I has actually wondered if that was the case after I had posted - wasn't aware such points as those existed though.

 

[The Barlow Boy]

I doubt raib would be involved, to be honest.

You betcha sweet bottom dollar R.A.I.B. will be involved. It's a passenger train, it's derailed. The Signaller and the traincrew members are going to be asked some very pertinant questions.

 

[matchmaker]

You betcha sweet bottom dollar R.A.I.B. will be involved. It's a passenger train, it's derailed. The Signaller and the traincrew members are going to be asked some very pertinant questions.

Ah, what is known as "a chat without tea and biscuits"?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Ah, what is known as "a chat without tea and biscuits"?

Yes, all the staff involved will be having tea and biscuits with their managers, only without the tea. Or the biscuits.