153's-Better as 155's?

[GNERman]

As most of us know in the late 1980's-early 1990's, most of the 155 fleet was converted into the single 153's.
153's are notoriously difficult as they only have one engine, so if that cuts out you've had it.
My question is-Would 153's be more useful as 155's today?
My reasoning is that 153's are normally for strengthening other units and shorter services, yet I remember that they are sometimes used on the Settle-Carlisle line which is a pain as it is normally packed. FGW passengers are also complaining over crowding in the west country and these would be better for it.
Anyone else thing this?

 

[metrocammel]

The reason for the 153s was to provide an effective replacement for the '1st gen bubblecar'. It was a missing link in the 1980s, as they had replaced the traditional bubble cars, but had failed to make a suitable replacement for lightly loaded services. For a quiet branch line, it's not really cost effective to have a 2 car unit, so by splitting them into two, so long as their are no failures, you effectively half the maintenance costs.

I think the idea that they can be used as a separate 'single' unit, or 'in 155 style' in multi means they are far better as 153s, as they have far more flexibility that a single fixed formation two-car unit. To me, they seem quite handy units, and can be dropped onto busy services at relative ease - as Northern do at Manchester Victoria for at least one of the rush-hour Leeds services.

I think they are fine as 153s, and serve the purpose they were designed for- underused branch lines- which, out of season, at off peak times, most of the Cornish branches are! (I was on the Looe line not that long ago, and I was one of the only 6 on the train- that is not viable to run a two car unit on IMO- though in Summer, I have to say there is more of an argument to use 2-car units- thus 2x 153s very suitable!) and the final reason, is as mentioned, to bolster busy services.

 

[Guinness]

153s are needed. Ideal replacement for the bubble car, branch lines and can strengthen some services to 3 cars at Peak Times. The list goes on. The is it just gets misused a lot..
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
metrocammel beat me to it!

 

[John_158]

Yes i think 153s are great and as said are very useful and that modern day Multiple units should be built in this way instead of fixed formation units.

As said modern day MUs should be built in this way but with trailer carriages in between so that the driving units can be swapped if needed.

Thus would more than likely speed up maintenance too as the trailer carriages would become separate maintenance giving the driving units more reliability.

You would also have flexibility too as spare driving units would be able to be attached to busier services in the peak hour even if its a pacer it is hooked up to.

 

[P156KWJ]

they are very useful seeing as they can work in multiple with any 14X/15X and 170s, (even 141s for those who didn't know), thus very flexible. And to be honest, it's not that often you get an engine stop working randomly so that point's not really comparable. Only trouble is 153s are notorious (especially at the converted no.2 end) for faulty couplers, and they have trouble getting them to talk to each other (I can remember an incident where a 150+153 a few years ago on the Robin Hood Line seperated in service as a result).

 

[alex57601]

153s have their place on the railway, although it could be argued that perhaps not as many should have been converted in the first place.

One major problem will be when the 153s reach the end of their lives and the railway is stuck with the predicament of what to replace them with bearing in mind the face of the railway could potentially change in the remainder of the 153s useful lives.

 

[Techniquest]

Re: dodgy couplers, I remember 153313 failing on the HoW at Llandrindod Wells in September 2006, bowling out many passengers for hours. So when it was caped they tried coupling it to the Shrewsbury-bound 153362. Took about 8 attempts, and then only after they gave up and ran 362 around to the back of 313! Got it all on tape here somewhere, made for some entertainment whilst waiting for my bus home!

 

[GWRtom]

153's are useful for off peack local sirvices and quiet branch lines but nothing else.

 

[Z12XE]

One major problem will be when the 153s reach the end of their lives and the railway is stuck with the predicament of what to replace them with

Whatever happens I doubt we will see any new single car 'heavy' trains. DDA requirements will see to that.

 

[507 001]

it's not that often you get an engine stop working randomly so that point's not really comparable.

You obviously have very little experience with northerns stock lol. happens all the time up here with 142's and 156's.

 

[TEW]

153's are useful for off peak local services and quiet branch lines but nothing else.

Yes they are, they are very good for strengthening peak time services, where 2 carriages is too little and four carriages not possible.

 

[adamp]

Soon though with overcrowding, the average 'bubble car' will now have to be a two car if you understand what I mean.
Lines which can cope with single 153's will eventually have to have two cars as smaller settlements will grow surely?

 

[TEW]

I would say that the Looe and Newquay branchlines in Cornwall in Winter are never likely to need more than a single 153.

 

[The_Rail_WAy]

The 153's are useful for (a) providing extra capacity on busy rush-hour services, (b) acting as single units on extremely quiet rural lines such as Wales, Cornwall, short branches etc. For these reasons they are extremely versatile.

When acting as a 155 there were problems with the coaches sagging because they were so long and apparently the doors did'nt work effeciently with stories of them opening mid-transit, thus meaning they had to spend time being modified.

 

[Z12XE]

When acting as a 153 there were problems with the coaches sagging because they were so long and apparently the doors did'nt work effeciently with stories of them opening mid-transit, thus meaning they had to spend time being modified.

Door Interlock can still be a problem. Anyone who's stood in a vestibule of a 153 can easily see why - the doors dont fit properly and rattle around.

One example between Ipswich and Haughley Junction when an IC service passes and the air pressure moves a door on the 153 just enough to loose interlock

 

[adamp]

Ive noticed that, and on the 150's, when a passing train goes past they move like hell !

-Adam

 

[90019]

When acting as a 153 there were problems with the coaches sagging because they were so long

i thought the sagging affected 155s as well?

 

[P156KWJ]

You obviously have very little experience with northerns stock lol. happens all the time up here with 142's and 156's.

in the East Midlands in my experience it isn't a massive problem, Northern's stock is pretty tired though as it serves much more busy lines, considering 153s and 156s in particular around here just serve Lincolnshire, Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire branches mostly.

 

[class 313]

Ive noticed that, and on the 150's, when a passing train goes past they move like hell !

-Adam

As they do on: 455s, 456s, 319s, 317s, 320s, 321s, 322s and other such trains. I believe they are designed to move.

 

[MCR247]

Oh I know what you mean now about the doors

 

[507 001]

in the East Midlands in my experience it isn't a massive problem, Northern's stock is pretty tired though as it serves much more busy lines, considering 153s and 156s in particular around here just serve Lincolnshire, Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire branches mostly.

true, true.

its REALLY tired lol

I thought with 153 doors being plug there wouldnt be a problem with it moving!

 

[P156KWJ]

As they do on: 455s, 456s, 319s, 317s, 320s, 321s, 322s and other such trains. I believe they are designed to move.

wait til a HST passes a pacer you're on hock:

 

[507 001]

wait til a HST passes a pacer you're on hock:

oh yes, it happens with any train pretty bad but an HST! hock:

 

[class 313]

wait til a HST passes a pacer you're on hock:

An HST passed my 319 outside West Hampstead and opened one of the doors which caused an emergency stop and for the doors to be reset!

 

[Max]

wait til a HST passes a pacer you're on hock:

This happened to me just last week. It was a late evening service from York-Selby, fairly quiet, and pretty dark ambience on a 142 too. I was nodding off, and then....ROAR! God, that woke me up!

 

[laseandre]

An HST passed my 319 outside West Hampstead and opened one of the doors which caused an emergency stop and for the doors to be reset!

That happened to my mate on a 322 outside Musselburgh. Scared the pants off him.

 

[alex57601]

The 153's are useful for (a) providing extra capacity on busy rush-hour services, (b) acting as single units on extremely quiet rural lines such as Wales, Cornwall, short branches etc. For these reasons they are extremely versatile.

When acting as a 153 there were problems with the coaches sagging because they were so long and apparently the doors did'nt work effeciently with stories of them opening mid-transit, thus meaning they had to spend time being modified.

That was 155s. They had problems with doors and were all withdrawn 20yrs ago when there were elevating cases of doors opening on the move. All were reinstated once they were modified to prevent it from happening again.

For the record, the 155s received the door mods at Steamtown Southport.

 

[metrocammel]

The 155 door problem caused a hell of a headache for BR at the time. 156s destined for ScotRail ended up dotted around other bits of the UK, mainly S. Wales/ South West, covering for the rogue 155s. I believe it also caused many a 1st gen unit reprieve.

 

[The_Rail_WAy]

That was 155s. They had problems with doors and were all withdrawn 20yrs ago when there were elevating cases of doors opening on the move. All were reinstated once they were modified to prevent it from happening again.

For the record, the 155s received the door mods at Steamtown Southport.

Yeah I meant the 155's - just a typo. Interesting just how serious a problem these doors were and how much of a headache it must have caused for BR at the time.

 

[WillPS]

Were the door units on the 155 changed to be identical to the 156 ones? They seem pretty similar.