125mph - how much track?

[theshillito]

So with Virgin continually going on about how they can run 125mph as if nobody else can, I got to wondering how much track each operator *can* run 125mph on.

According to Wikipedia, the following operators can run 125mph for some of their route, depending on stock:

• First Great Western
• Virgin Trains
• CrossCountry
• East Coast
• East Midlands Trains
• First Hull Trains
• Grand Central Railway

(I've discounted HS1 and Eurostar)

Obviously some operators will share some track with others, but I'm really interested to see how much each operator actually has, especially Virgin vs East Coast. Might be a more accurate representation to have percentage or ratio, but I'll leave that to you.

 

[flash]

Don't forget Southeastern and their highspeed service.

 

[thenorthern]

I know East Midlands Trains have only just been allowed to operate at 125 MPH from last year but most of the Midland Mainline is still only 100 MPH I think.

CrossCountry are allowed 125 MPH between Birmingham and Edinburgh on most sections I think but on Birmingham to Bristol they are only allowed 100 MPH because of level crossings.

I know between Peterborough and Newark there are several 6 track level crossings and Newark Flat Crossing which limits the line speed to 100 MPH.

Most level crossings on the West Coast Mainline have long gone now but there is still one at Hest Bank which I think lowers the line speed there but other than that I would say the WCML has far more points where they can reach 125 MPH than the ECML.

 

[Kneedown]

I know East Midlands Trains have only just been allowed to operate at 125 MPH from last year but most of the Midland Mainline is still only 100 MPH I think.

110mph

I know between Peterborough and Newark there are several 6 track level crossings and Newark Flat Crossing which limits the line speed to 100 MPH.

The linespeed over Helpston, Maxey, Lolham, Tallington and Greatford CCTV level crossings is 125mph.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Most level crossings on the West Coast Mainline have long gone now but there is still one at Hest Bank which I think lowers the line speed there but other than that I would say the WCML has far more points where they can reach 125 MPH than the ECML.

Brock was recently abolished but was 125mph. According to the LNW:N Sectional Appendix, Hest Bank and Bolton le Sands are 125 (EPS) in the Up and 100 / 110 (EPS) in the Down.

 

[Tomnick]

There's no reason why a full barrier crossing (as all of the above named are) should limit linespeed to anything less than 125mph. It's only AHBs that aren't allowed over 100mph.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I make it 248.5 miles of 125mph (EPS) running on the WCML, and 217.5 miles on the ECML.
125mph running starts at mp 7.60 out of Euston (Wembley), but not till 23.15 out of King's Cross (Woolmer Green).
The WCML dips for long spells Colwich-Norton Bridge, Acton Grange-Wigan, Milnthorpe-Penrith, Upperby-Quintinshill, and 125mph running runs out at Carstairs.
The ECML is below 125mph from Aycliffe to north of Alnmouth, and there are only 22 miles of 125mph running north of there in 6 sections.

 

[The Planner]

CrossCountry are allowed 125 MPH between Birmingham and Edinburgh on most sections I think but on Birmingham to Bristol they are only allowed 100 MPH because of level crossings.

There isnt an awful lot of 125 that XC can take advantage of north of Brum until you start hitting the ECML.

 

[westv]

I think 125mph running between Selby and Hull should be a priority!

 

[shaun]

FGW is Paddington - Bath Spa/Bristol Parkway, bar a 70mph curve west of Swindon for Parkway-bound services. Not sure about the Berks & Hants, used to be 110mph max but then it may have been upgraded since.

Main issue with FGW is the amount of recovery time they have in the timetable, which means services are timed for around 100mph (probably due to the increase of freight and the Heathrow Express). It doesn't take an HST 27 mins to reach Reading at full speed for example, in the 90s there was a 22min departure after Paddington from Reading. A turbo was even timed for 29min at 90mph.

 

[louis97]

It doesn't take an HST 27 mins to reach Reading at full speed for example, in the 90s there was a 22min departure after Paddington from Reading. A turbo was even timed for 29min at 90mph.

Remember the 90s was before the Ladbroke Grove rail crash of which afterwards the line speed out of Paddington was restricted approximately as follows:
40mph 0.00 > 1.12
50mph 1.12 > 2.15
85mph/100mph MU 2.15 > 4.40

It is now only until 4 and half miles out of Paddington that 125 MPH is the line speed, previously the line speed out of Paddington was a lot higher with high speed crossovers to allow HSTs to go right up to 125mph.

So I can imagine this would of had an impact on journey times, the journey time now is 25 1/2 minutes, that is with 1 minute engineering allowance at Twyford - so technically 24 1/2 minutes should be possible. Nothing to do with Heathrow Express, it may of affected some trains, but trains are still timed at 125mph.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Yes, I used to travel on the 08.00 Paddington-Swansea every morning, which would often arrive at Reading at 08.22.xx - so that I could sometimes connect into the 08.24 from platform 4a. Nothing was ever the same after Heathrow Express came along, sadly.

 

[PermitToTravel]

There's no reason why a full barrier crossing (as all of the above named are) should limit linespeed to anything less than 125mph. It's only AHBs that aren't allowed over 100mph.

Aren't there some uncontrolled foot/accommodation crossings at 125?

FGW is Paddington - Bath Spa/Bristol Parkway, bar a 70mph curve west of Swindon for Parkway-bound services. Not sure about the Berks & Hants, used to be 110mph max but then it may have been upgraded since.

Nothing higher than 110mph

 

[IanXC]

I think 125mph running between Selby and Hull should be a priority!

I'm not sure about 125, but... There's currently 1.5 trains per hour which could make use of aany limit over 90mph. When electrification comes along potentially (with expected service level changes) there would be 3.5tph. At which point, given the nature of the route being suited to higher speed running there is maybe more of a case.

 

[DarloRich]

Aren't there some uncontrolled foot/accommodation crossings at 125?

Castle Hills in Northallerton:

Northallerton by DarloRich2009, on Flickr

 

[Carlisle]

It all seems to be about capacity increases these days as I cannot think of any speed increases to 125 mph since the west coast upgrade other than the very recently upgraded sections of midland main line

 

[edwin_m]

Weren't bits of Birmingham-Sheffield increased to HST125 as part of the Cross Country upgrade in around 2000?

 

[BantamMenace]

What is the longest seciton of continuous 125mph on the network (HS1 excluded).

And how much 140mph running can we expect once we have the appropriate signalling?

 

[louis97]

Weren't bits of Birmingham-Sheffield increased to HST125 as part of the Cross Country upgrade in around 2000?

Just between Birmingham and Derby was it upgraded to 125, the rest was just upgraded as follows. Top line speed between Derby and Chesterfield is 110mph, of which since the Midland Mainline speed increases is nearly 110mph the whole way apart from a section in the middle around Belper and Ambergate. Line speed between Chesterfield and Sheffield was only upgraded generally to 95 from 80/85/90 - although thats not the whole way.

 

[Carlisle]

Weren't bits of Birmingham-Sheffield increased to HST125 as part of the Cross Country upgrade in around 2000?

Yes I think your right also I think Wolverhampton to Stafford was in that cross country scheme

 

[All Line Rover]

I'm sure there are some level crossings on the WCML between Rugeley and Stoke, which is unusual as I'm not aware of any other level crossings on the entire WCML between London and Manchester, whether via Crewe or Stoke.

 

[dangie]

Aren't there still three level crossings at Stone, in-between Colwich and Stoke. However the line speed is pretty slow through Stone I think.

 

[Tomnick]

Aren't there some uncontrolled foot/accommodation crossings at 125?

Yes, there's no general maximum limit on them (other than presumably a maximum of 125mph), although sighting and other factors might impose a specific constraint at a given crossing. It's not like an AHB, where the linespeed cannot ever exceed 100mph (similarly for an AOCL/ABCL, at 55mph?).

 

[thenorthern]

There are level crossings at Barleston and Wedgewood just to the south of Stoke-on-Trent the is also one in Stone on the Stone to Colwich line. There was also the notorious level crossing at Hixon but that's now been removed. I don't recall any level crossing north of Stoke-on-Trent on that line. I think there was one in Tamworth that has been removed.

One thing to note is even though line speeds may be 125 MPH many lines are shared with slow trains such as 142 Pacers which mean that high speed trains can be very restricted at times they can run.

 

[The Planner]

You have Mow Cop north of Kidsgrove. As for the slower trains mixing with fast ones, you timetable it so they dont get in the way!

 

[21C101]

110mph

No, quite a few sections of the midland mainline were upgraded to 125mph as of December 2013, with foot crossings replaced by footbridges. Elstree tunnel to Wellingborough (roughly) is the most significant chunk albeit with some slower PSRs at places like St Albans stn and Ampthill Tunnel.

 

[lincolnshire]

I think 125mph running between Selby and Hull should be a priority!

I think it would be a bloody miracle if this ever happened, is that why they did Selby Bridge refurbisement? 125 mph across it!

 

[edwin_m]

I think there was one in Tamworth that has been removed.

Hademore crossing. Replaced by a bridge, as with Hixon and at least two more between Coventry and Wolverhampton.

 

[theshillito]

This is some great information, thanks everyone.

It sounds like Virgin is, indeed, the "winner" when it comes to amount of 125mph track. It's also really interesting finding out what stops certain parts from being upgraded.

I'm also unaware of any plans to upgrade any more track for faster running, however the Norton Bridge upgrades should speed up things around there.

I also presume electrification of great western should speed things up with acceleration and shorter dwell times?

 

[Kneedown]

No, quite a few sections of the midland mainline were upgraded to 125mph as of December 2013, with foot crossings replaced by footbridges. Elstree tunnel to Wellingborough (roughly) is the most significant chunk albeit with some slower PSRs at places like St Albans stn and Ampthill Tunnel.

I know, I was referring to the maximum speed prior to the December upgrades.