125mph frieght?

[Masbroughlad]

It would need some legislation to get lorries off the roads for long distance journeys.

 

[daccer]

I have worked both for Railfreight in the 80's and then ran my own courier company for ten years so I have a little insight into the inherent problems in making a viable case for high speed freight

Firstly and most importantly there is little market for 125mph freight. The only real market where any differnece could be made is London-Scotland and even then there is one intrinsic problem. All courier/overnight networks work on the hub/spoke principle. This means that individual depots feed into a central hub once a day at roughly the same time. The outgoing trunk vehicles then return to the depot with deliveries for their area.

All the hubs are in the Midlands - mainly in Birmingham around the M6 and M5 as this is the centre of the country's road network and so easily accessable. The vasy majority of the trucks will spend hours parked up at the hub waiting for their return loads so there is no need for greater speed. Only the Scotland and maybe Cornwall trucks face time constraints due to the distances being covered.

Red Star tried to offer sameday courier services but the need for vans at either end just made it unprofitable. BR tried it with Track 29 also for bulkier loads but this ended up moving to an all road operation.

Sorry to rain on any parades but legislation is the only thing that will make real differences to the railfreight market. Here in South Africa there used to be a law that a license was needed to use road haulage if there was a rail alternative - urgent/sensitive goods could go by road but nothing else. Alas this has fallen away and now we have carnage on the roads.

 

[RobShipway]

I have worked both for Railfreight in the 80's and then ran my own courier company for ten years so I have a little insight into the inherent problems in making a viable case for high speed freight

Firstly and most importantly there is little market for 125mph freight. The only real market where any differnece could be made is London-Scotland and even then there is one intrinsic problem. All courier/overnight networks work on the hub/spoke principle. This means that individual depots feed into a central hub once a day at roughly the same time. The outgoing trunk vehicles then return to the depot with deliveries for their area.

All the hubs are in the Midlands - mainly in Birmingham around the M6 and M5 as this is the centre of the country's road network and so easily accessable. The vasy majority of the trucks will spend hours parked up at the hub waiting for their return loads so there is no need for greater speed. Only the Scotland and maybe Cornwall trucks face time constraints due to the distances being covered.

Red Star tried to offer sameday courier services but the need for vans at either end just made it unprofitable. BR tried it with Track 29 also for bulkier loads but this ended up moving to an all road operation.

Sorry to rain on any parades but legislation is the only thing that will make real differences to the railfreight market. Here in South Africa there used to be a law that a license was needed to use road haulage if there was a rail alternative - urgent/sensitive goods could go by road but nothing else. Alas this has fallen away and now we have carnage on the roads.

True, as Red Parcels old hub used to be just off the WCML before getting into Birmingham New Street, although I think it has since been knocked down and rebuilt on.

But quite a few of the large courier hubs within the M6/M5 I believe are not far or are adjacent to either a freight line or on a line off the mainline aren't they?

 

[colchesterken]

I would have thought the best benefit of high speed freight would be pathing with passenger trains rather than saving a few minutes on end to end timings
Here on the GEML there is the problem of all passenger trains being 100 mph
fitting in with the container trains from the eastern ports running at 75
I have been on a Norwich express running on yellows then waiting at Maryland
for the freight to go onto the north London line at Stratford and with the better
service on London Overground Stratford will get more clogged up

 

[LE Greys]

I would have thought the best benefit of high speed freight would be pathing with passenger trains rather than saving a few minutes on end to end timings
Here on the GEML there is the problem of all passenger trains being 100 mph
fitting in with the container trains from the eastern ports running at 75
I have been on a Norwich express running on yellows then waiting at Maryland
for the freight to go onto the north London line at Stratford and with the better
service on London Overground Stratford will get more clogged up

If the new north chord gets built at Ipswich, more freight will be able to run via Bury St Edmund's and that should help. However, a bit more speed and good acceleration would be very useful. I've often wondered if the Class 92s couldn't speed things up a bit on electric routes.

 

[87015]

I would have thought the best benefit of high speed freight would be pathing with passenger trains rather than saving a few minutes on end to end timings
Here on the GEML there is the problem of all passenger trains being 100 mph
fitting in with the container trains from the eastern ports running at 75
I have been on a Norwich express running on yellows then waiting at Maryland
for the freight to go onto the north London line at Stratford and with the better
service on London Overground Stratford will get more clogged up

Pathing 75mph freights is no real problem against the Norwichs, its the stopping trains that get in the way and slow the freights down which are far more problematic. Acceleration is more important than top speed, a 66 on a class 4 takes an age to get speed up and never will running on yellows behind a slow or semi, give a class 4 a clear run behind a Norwich and it'll be not far at all behind it at Ipswich.

 

[tirphil]

EWS ran a series of trial 90mph (class 3 designation) container trains between Mossend and Wembley about 7 or 8 years ago using class 90's. Can only guess that there wasn't a business case to order sufficient wagons to run a full blown service as there aren't any class 3 freights running at the moment to my knowledge.

 

[Dolive22]

True, as Red Parcels old hub used to be just off the WCML before getting into Birmingham New Street, although I think it has since been knocked down and rebuilt on.

But quite a few of the large courier hubs within the M6/M5 I believe are not far or are adjacent to either a freight line or on a line off the mainline aren't they?

There is still a freightliner depot near there. There is also an empty warehouse if anyone wanted to start it up again.