12 car train milestone for FCC TL passengers

[Firestarter]

I wonder when the last time was that you could travel from Bedford to Brighton on a Sunday without changing. Normally, on the occasionsl Sundays that they run through London, they terminate at Haywards Heath or Three Bridges due to engineering woirks on the Brighton line.

If I had to guess I would say before the introductions of 377's.

 

[Blindtraveler]

wooer how many do actually use it end to end normally anyway?

 

[jopsuk]

Probably damn few, but I'd guess that the numbers using it to get south London from the north and north London from the south are not insubstantial.

 

[Southern]

There was apparently a 12 car running on the Southern (London Bridge - Brighton) on 24th September. Class 377513, 523 and 509 were the units used for the 1034/1307 Brighton - London Bridge and their respective returns at 1142/1427.

 

[Blindtraveler]

oo interesting. Egerly awate 12 car 319 and 442 sets if thats how its going! As to long distance ridership, have used between gatwick and luton airports but thats it.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....As I went through the station for some reason the lights were on and the exit open, even though nothing was stopping. Does anyone know why? :-?....

When I worked there lights were left on as staff were still on duty there and they needed to get from the exit(s) to the control room (on the platform) to the mess room (at the Ludgate Hill end) and I also believe they sometimes did some 'heavy cleaning' at weekends (with platform/concourse sweeping normally done over night). This probably still applies, but it may not.

If you passed through I seriously doubt you could tell if the exits were open (unless people were on the platforms), although the fire exits might have been.

 

[Firestarter]

oo interesting. Egerly awate 12 car 319 and 442 sets if thats how its going! As to long distance ridership, have used between gatwick and luton airports but thats it.

319's will never be formed of 12 cars in service.

 

[brad465]

oo interesting. Egerly awate 12 car 319 and 442 sets if thats how its going! As to long distance ridership, have used between gatwick and luton airports but thats it.

You cannot get a 12 Car 442, they are formed in 5 car sets

 

[b0b]

319's will never be formed of 12 cars in service.

why not? lack of stock or technical issue?

 

[westcoaster]

why not? lack of stock or technical issue?

Lack of gangway connections.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Doesn't stop them running as 8-car, why would it stop 12-car running?

 

[jon0844]

I presume that when it's as an 8-car, you have an exit route from the front door on the front set, and the rear door on the rear set.

In the case of a 12-car, the middle set has no way to get off. You couldn't get passengers to walk through as there's no walkway (and the doors are kept shut, unlike on a 317 or 377).

 

[hairyhandedfool]

No-one can get out of the rear door because it is behind a locked door which only a driver can open (there is no guard)..

 

[jon0844]

There must surely be an emergency door release? How then are people supposed to get off the rear set when there's nobody at the front or rear?

If the doors aren't supposed to be used then why have them?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

My impression is that they should only be used for a controlled evacuation. Emergency door releases are available on the side facing doors.

 

[rmt-driver]

I presume that when it's as an 8-car, you have an exit route from the front door on the front set, and the rear door on the rear set.

In the case of a 12-car, the middle set has no way to get off. You couldn't get passengers to walk through as there's no walkway (and the doors are kept shut, unlike on a 317 or 377).

You mean like the c2c trains which run as 12 coach formation?

 

[MCR247]

Yes, but there is rules affecting TL, same with the 378s have to have emergency doors

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes, but there is rules affecting TL, same with the 378s have to have emergency doors

But as discussed before, I think those specific rules 'affecting Thameslink' were for the Moorgate Branch - the remaining tunnels in use are basically double track and accessible from the side doors...

 

[Firestarter]

RE 12 319:

Not 100% but i believe it has something to do with rules regarding potential of 12 car train evacuation in the core section. But like I said not 100% certain, I'm sure a Thameslink driver can give a more definitive answer, regardless it not happening.

 

[Aictos]

Lack of gangway connections.

Fair enough but what about the 321s and 365s on the GN which don't have gangway connections - They're still used in 12 car formations and nothing is said.

I really can't see why the 319s can't run in 12 car formations come December 2012, these rules really are outdated!

 

[swt_passenger]

RE 12 319:

Not 100% but i believe it has something to do with rules regarding potential of 12 car train evacuation in the core section. But like I said not 100% certain, I'm sure a Thameslink driver can give a more definitive answer, regardless it not happening.

Presumably it isn't cost effective to provide new platform cameras and monitors for 12 car 319s (at this late stage in their life) which would also 'prevent' their use.

Oh, and probably another relevant point - they can't increase any 319 services without shortening other 8 car 319s, the stock is finite so why bother - indeed if they had more 319s wouldn't they just increase the odd 4 car that still runs around?.

 

[jon0844]

It was for the narrow tunnels, and as stated, that bit of tunnel has gone anyway. Obviously not all trains need doors at the ends, but for GN the 313s do - and there are emergency door releases for you to get into the cab and open the doors.

I've been on a 313 to Moorgate (via GN, not TL) where the driver has had to reverse back to Drayton Park and he must have stepped over from one set to another using the doors - but I doubt ordinary people would be able to that safely as there's a drop.

All new tunnels would have space for a side door evacuation wouldn't they?

 

[swt_passenger]

All new tunnels would have space for a side door evacuation wouldn't they?

Absolutely. I think a continuous platform is now required, it is definitely the plan for Crossrail, and the recent DLR tunnelling has continuous walkways.

I can't remember where I read this but there's also some bright idea from the EU that tunnel floors should allow for ease of walking and emergency (wheeled) vehicle access as well, so 'tram style' rails will have to be fitted in a flat floor...

 

[Firestarter]

Fair enough but what about the 321s and 365s on the GN which don't have gangway connections - They're still used in 12 car formations and nothing is said.

I really can't see why the 319s can't run in 12 car formations come December 2012, these rules really are outdated!

Don't forget TL and GN are on different terms and conditions. For 319s to run as 12 would probably need driver agreement etc.

 

[brad465]

Are there any tunnels with a width similar to that of the shakespeare tunnel on their routes (even though this tunnel now has a side exit so highspeed can use the tunnel)

 

[12CSVT]

Don't forget TL and GN are on different terms and conditions. For 319s to run as 12 would probably need driver agreement etc.

319s can (and do) run as 12 car, but only as ECS.