12-car platforms at Sawbridgeworth

[47421]

Yes appreciate won't always have driver for that ECS, but sometimes surely they will do. Just seems odd to short form an 8 car 10+ trains diagram to 4 car all day, rather than 12 car to 8 car 2 train diagram. Don't short forms get counted against reliability stats?

On the wider question of whether GA could run more 12 car trains on West Anglia. It's difficult. They would need more trains. Now there are 9 class 317 units at Ilford off lease, in theory they could be re-leased relatively quickly, assuming price could be agreed with owner. However DfT only 2 years ago awarded franchise on basis that Abellio would cancel/not renew leases on those units, and franchise premium/subsidy calculated accordingly. DfT could amend franchise specification but if franchisee has to lease more trains = more subsidy/less premium so they prob won't want to.

Even if had the trains, if you don't run 12 cars on Stansteds, operationally it is hard to serve Brox, Sawb, Stan M with 12 car Camb services as all the semi fast Camb train diagrams also involve Camb stoppers and Hertford East services, and those trains stop at various stations that only accommodate 8 cars.

So going back to the original q as to why Sawb and Stan M platforms were extended, seems that after decided that Stansteds didn't need 12 cars, and under-utilised 379s would be used on the peak additional fast trains from Camb, turns out no need at all for the longer platforms, not for next few years anyway.

Could be proved wrong of course. Been reports that Abellio has been awarded new 2 yr franchise to Oct 16, but no formal announcement. Perhaps we will find out they have agreed a new round of improvements inc getting those 317s back and more 12 car trains, but I doubt it somehow.

 

[306024]

Hmm, use the cover driver for an ECS move and then another driver gets delayed on the way to work in Cambridge's notorious traffic and you have a peak passenger train cancelled. You may be lucky to have another spare driver, or maybe you won't.

With regard to the longer platforms the history has been well documented by Messrs Rick and Leigh. Remember the DfT is like a supertanker, takes ages to get going in any direction, and even longer to change course.

I'm a regular user of Greater Anglia's terrible service from Sawbridgeworth........

If this is your starting point I am not surprised you get kafkaesque and haikus replies from the twitter team (was it only me that had to look that up?). If you are asking for help it is not usually a good idea to offend those who can assist.

 

[OxtedL]

Why wouldn't they? Not having a cover driver(s) there for the morning peak would be a strange decision to make.

I couldn't comment specifically on cover drivers at Cambridge. I agree some must probably be rostered, but past experience on discussing this topic in the context of other TOCs has shown that spare drivers are frequently occupied doing other things in the peak already.

At any rate, we're talking about a 4 car ECS that, if it can't run, won't lead to any trains being cancelled. This will be right at the bottom of list of priorities when allocating tasks for a spare driver, even if you can find an appropriate path for it to run in (the margin for arriving at Stansted must be quite tight), so I reckon it's safe to say this couldn't be done reliably. If control are having anything other than a very quiet morning, it's unrealistic to organise.

 

[47421]

I think the point is that the twitter responses are sometimes not helpful. To say declassification of first decisions is down to on board staff is misleading isnt it? A Bis Stortford driver told me that drivers are not authorised to declassify. Any GA staff want to comment on that? I have only once known a StanExp service be declassified and that was announced on platform at Stortford, not on train.

Yes a nuisance for control to arrange an ecs, but even if u ignore inconvenience to pass aspect, from a purely making your reliability stats look better aspect, would have thought there was some merit in having a contingency plan so if driver is available this could be done.

GA tell people who query their handling of disruption that they have 37 off the shelf contingency plans, but apparently none of them include lessening the impact of short forms when short of 379s.

 

[O L Leigh]

Unit diagramming has as much to do with ensuring that a unit does not exceed it's diagrammed hours between exams as it has to do with providing a certain level of accommodation. It is possibly to "step up" units to a certain degree without too much of an impact, but nicking a unit off one diagram to put it onto a different one can have quite an impact. Units on the 12 car Cambridges only go up to Liverpool Street and back twice (although one in three will also continue to Kings Lynn and back) whereas some of the Stansted Express unit diagrams can exceed 1000 miles in a day. This can lead to a unit going "over-mileage" and needing to be taken out of service at a later time in order for it to go to the depot.

If you want to pinch a unit at short notice to cover for a failure it really needs to be a unit that's diagrammed to be "standby" at one location or other. Unfortunately there just aren't enough Cl379s to allow for a diagrammed standby unit of this class.

In addition to needing a driver to take an empty train up to Stansted there also needs to be a path for it to run in, particularly through the single-line section into the airport itself. It's a busy time of the day and I'm not sure that any paths are available.

O L Leigh

 

[jon0844]

I hope Velocireb has found this thread interesting, as I have.

This thread is a perfect example of why the forum is so valuable. It's always nice to see an ordinary rail user join to ask questions and hopefully learn a lot about how it all works, and hear about things you might not have ever thought about.

It might not always be the answer that you want to hear, but it often shows that things have been considered and there are reasons why something can't be done - not just management not giving a stuff.

 

[SPADTrap]

Velocireb, you may find this of interest if you haven't already seen it.

Posted by 47412:

After a period of poor reliablity on GA last year, Mark Prisk, MP for Hertford and Stortford invited comments from constituents and then arranged a meeting with GA.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=98845

The report, specifically part 4 makes mention of stopping additional 12 car services at Sawbridgeworth. It mentions that this would cause delays to other services. The report makes interesting reading for people who use the line regularly, it is nice to get something 'official' from the company too.

Sorry to dig up a passed thread.

 

[Velocireb]

Thank you - I shall take a look! No better way to spend a bank hol. And thread has been incredibly interesting. Thanks to all who took the time to contribute. I shall no doubt be back with more puzzlement! Velocireb

 

[47421]

On the unit maintenance cycles, yes that might be a problem, but I dont think the 379 diagrams and exam cycles are that complex, all the units are based at Ilford and none are ever v far away. Also there are 9 units at Camb overnight to chose from if you wanted to move one onto Stansted Express. Sure not all of them will be accessible, but a number of them will be.

On pathing to Stansted Airport, yes the long single track tunnel is a problem, but seems there are some spare paths, as they are adding two extra trains a hour with the new off peak Camb-Stansted and return in July, and the off peak service pattern is the same as the peak so that suggests there are two extra paths an hour all day.

I am not suggesting it will always be easy to move a unit from the Camb-LivSt service to the Stansted Express, but I would have thought it was do-able sometimes.

 

[O L Leigh]

I'm afraid you may have missed the point I have been trying to make. It's not simply a matter of whether or not a train can get to the depot but about planning and making the best use of the available resources.

Yes by all means pinch a train from somewhere else, but if that results in that train going over-mileage it will cause a capacity problem later. Exams are scheduled in such a way that maximises the number of trains in service while not overstretching the maintenance capacity at the depot. This is why it's important to plan and work out which trains will cover which diagrams on each day in order to control the rate at which they accumulate mileage. Taking a train off it's diagram may deal with a capacity problem in the short term, but if that train goes over-mileage as a result it will have to be taken out of service while it awaits it's next exam, which could be for days. The depot cannot simply give a train an exam out of sequence because there may not be the capacity to do so. This gives the planners one less train with which to provide a service and cover for any other eventualities leading to a capacity problem further down the line.

O L Leigh