11 Car Pendo at Dollands Moor

[ukrob]

My point was that saying they need to be a 'contrasting colour' is not entirely correct.

I admit I made the point badly though

 

[dave59]

Out of interest, what approval does a train need when it is merely two cars longer?!

Good question. Both train and infrastructure are a known quantity so why not just run it in service? Why the lengthy and costly commissioning and the talk of whether the 390 will be "suitable" for the ECML when the railway has the same track, signalling and electrification standards as the WCML?

Why make such a meal of it?

 

[Dai.]

Good question. Both train and infrastructure are a known quantity so why not just run it in service? Why the lengthy and costly commissioning and the talk of whether the 390 will be "suitable" for the ECML when the railway has the same track, signalling and electrification standards as the WCML?

Why make such a meal of it?

Welcome to the UK! You must be new here?


But I think its safety stuff - You have to check it up against platforms - go over your evacuation plan etc - because its 11 cars not 9 then they need to assess whether it meets safety requirements?

I don't know if this is right, but this is how they work it with new planes.

 

[jon0844]

I can accept this more if there are certain things that have changed on the newer builds, as is common on new planes. Even cars that have had a certain number of changes require new safety testing (which is probably why many refreshes of cars are mainly cosmetic facelifts to save money).

I'd be interested to know what has changed significantly enough for it to be considered necessary to do another safety assessment. Surely evacuating a train isn't something that needs to be tested based on it being 9 or 11-car, anymore than I'd expect trains needing to be tested in different configurations (3/6, 4/8/12 cars). But, I do say that out of total ignorance!!

 

[ukrob]

SDO testing is a biggie.

 

[Mojo]

And the same way BoJo has taken credit for the ELL, new stock for Overground etc.

Yep, but think of the major transport projects started under the Conservatives and then again those under Labour and see really who has made the biggest difference to our railways, particularly those in the provincial cities whose networks were completely revived and bettered throughout the 80s.

 

[SouthEastern-465]

Someone wrote on my comments on youtube has named the 11 car Pendolino the Extendolino? like that nickname, like with the Class 90 loco hauled known as the Pretendolino

And in my video someone does say Oh B*****ks becuase of two reason, 1st reason is that tthe trains between Rugeley Trent Valley and Birmingham New Street were disrupted becuase of signaalling in the Tame Bridge Parkway area and they canceled Trains if you hear in the video you get an there was an annnouncemnt about, 2nd reason was that he was going to film it or take an photo but was too late to get his camera/camcorder, the Oh B*****ks wasn't planned in the video

No worrys, I found it quite funny actually!

 

[Bighat]

Someone wrote on my comments on youtube has named the 11 car Pendolino the Extendolino? like that nickname, like with the Class 90 loco hauled known as the Pretendolino

And in my video someone does say Oh B*****ks becuase of two reason, 1st reason is that tthe trains between Rugeley Trent Valley and Birmingham New Street were disrupted becuase of signaalling in the Tame Bridge Parkway area and they canceled Trains if you hear in the video you get an there was an annnouncemnt about, 2nd reason was that he was going to film it or take an photo but was too late to get his camera/camcorder, the Oh B*****ks wasn't planned in the video

Say it as you see it!

 

[Wapping Dock]

11 Car Pendolino to be Mothballed - Liverpool Daily Post

 

[ainsworth74]

Not exactly news this has been known about for some time but at least the press get there eventually.

 

[phillipsalan09]

Anyone know of any timings / where they are testing her?

 

[IanPooleTrains]

At the moment, er, no

 

[Geezertronic]

I heard on the news that anyone can submit to lease the new 390. So why don't VT?

 

[MCR247]

Money?

 

[Pumbaa]

I heard on the news that anyone can submit to lease the new 390. So why don't VT?

They tried... While blackmailing DfT for a franchise extension. DfT won't give an extension, so VT won't lease them. If they wanted brownie points, go ahead and lease them anyway - don't play tit for tat with the bosses!

 

[Geezertronic]

They tried... While blackmailing DfT for a franchise extension. DfT won't give an extension, so VT won't lease them. If they wanted brownie points, go ahead and lease them anyway - don't play tit for tat with the bosses!

I think if 390054 is left sitting there into the new year then it is a complete farce. If they are going to comission it on ECML then get the thing going or at least scheduled in ASAP. If not, give it to VT so they can at least put it to use to compliment the existing 390 fleet

 

[Pumbaa]

I think if 390054 is left sitting there into the new year then it is a complete farce. If they are going to comission it on ECML then get the thing going or at least scheduled in ASAP. If not, give it to VT so they can at least put it to use to compliment the existing 390 fleet

Joys of privatisation and "real business"

 

[Peter Sarf]

They tried... While blackmailing DfT for a franchise extension. DfT won't give an extension, so VT won't lease them. If they wanted brownie points, go ahead and lease them anyway - don't play tit for tat with the bosses!

I think even the normal commisioning work for these new 390s might be significant enough to put Virgin off. But bear in mind they could be more troublesome than most of the original batch of 390s as they are assembled by different staff in a different factory in a different country - not Birmingham.

Given that Virgin have disbanded a 221 so as to make all the rest of their class 221s the same langth I cannot see Virgin being keen on the extra 2 coaches for 32 of the existing 52 9-car 390s.

I seem to recall the manufacturer and Virgin were originally keen on a lengthening project - AFAIK they suggested it !. But that was at a time when the manufacturer had spare capacity and the extra coaches were going to be inserted when the units were due a major exam. Otherwsie it involves significant downtime to re-configure the lenghthened units. The decision makers (Dft or Government) sat on their hands and made no decision . I presume what is being delivered now is too little (only about 60% of the fleet) and too late (the major exam has already been done) for Virgin to bother with.

Questions:
1) How big a job was it to extend the lengh of each 390 last time?.
2) Are the current deliveries a delayed version of the original plan/option or are they attempting something completely different at totally the wrong time ?.

 

[Geezertronic]

Given that Virgin have disbanded a 221 so as to make all the rest of their class 221s the same langth I cannot see Virgin being keen on the extra 2 coaches for 32 of the existing 52 9-car 390s.

Only 31 of the existing 52 sets will be lengthened under the current proposal (62 new carriages in total) with 4 new 390s of 11 carriages in length (although the original tender says these will be delivered in 9 car form and upgraded which does not appear to have happened with 390054)

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/pendolinolengthening/tender/main.pdf

Virgin Trains also have the tender to comission the new 390s and extend the existing 31 as well from what I understand. They should all be extended in my opinion

 

[Peter Sarf]

Only 31 of the existing 52 sets will be lengthened under the current proposal (62 new carriages in total) with 4 new 390s of 11 carriages in length (although the original tender says these will be delivered in 9 car form and upgraded which does not appear to have happened with 390054)

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/pendolinolengthening/tender/main.pdf

Virgin Trains also have the tender to comission the new 390s and extend the existing 31 as well from what I understand. They should all be extended in my opinion

Thanks Geezertronic - very interesting document. I have read as far as Page 8 so far but there are an awful lot of facts given-away/inferred in the Glossary of Terms (pages 5&6). The 31 units to be extended I don’t dispute - I blame my memory for saying 32. Like you say - looks obvious that the extra four 390s were supposed to be delivered as 9-cars and the document even states the advantages of this on page 8 second paragraph after the bullet points.

Conjecture but perhaps Virgin have been put out by discovering that the extra 9-car 390s are turning up as 11-car 390s !. I wonder at what stage Virgin discovered this. I would have thought they would have been far more more use as 9-car 390s.
If it was me, my preferences (in order) would be :
1) Four extra standard length 9-car 390s.
2) Extension of the WHOLE of the existing of the fleet by 2-cars.
3) As per 2) and 1) PLUS extension of the extra four units.
4) Four new 9-car 390s and then extension of 60% of the rest of the fleet !. The new 390s could be put straight into service to cover other 390s being out of service. With no pressure to lengthen the older 390s quickly.
5) Four new 11-car 390s and then extension of 60% of the rest of the fleet !.
My guess is that the Dft realised the attractiveness of only accepting part 1 above and so "encouraged" Virgin to take on the extension of 60% of the existing 390s by making sure the extra four 390s started life as 11-car units !. The Dft probably underestimated Virgin's unwillingness (my conjecture) to take on the lengthening project let alone for only part of the fleet. So Virgin saw red.

In other words, like you (Geezertronic), and most of the rest of the sane world we want a standard set of units. I also noted year(s) ago that the Four new 11-car 390s require 44 coaches. This was exactly the right number of coaches to extend the remaining 40% of the fleet. Well until one was written of at Grayrigg. I doubt if this fact escaped Virgin !.

 

[swt_passenger]

Virgin Trains also have the tender to comission the new 390s and extend the existing 31 as well from what I understand. They should all be extended in my opinion

'Virgin Rail Projects' have the contract (not the tender) to commission the new 390s. Legally a separate company to Virgin Trains. Part of the DfT's grand plan to ensure that Virgin Trains didn't have a direct responsibility for the job I guess...

 

[Geezertronic]

'Virgin Rail Projects' have the contract (not the tender) to commission the new 390s. Legally a separate company to Virgin Trains. Part of the DfT's grand plan to ensure that Virgin Trains didn't have a direct responsibility for the job I guess...

I realised that after I posted the comment but I couldn't find a decent source that said the exact name (I assumed it was Virgin Rail Group but that would have been wrong too). Thanks for clearing that up

 

[IanPooleTrains]

Just to give you an update on 390054 and it's three stepsisters.

390054 will now be undergoing a six month testing and commissioning session and the set will then be available for leasing

As for 055, 056 and 057, they will be delivered into the Uk as of January, August and December of 2012

The integration of the additional carriages will be starting as of April 2012

 

[Geezertronic]

390054 will now be undergoing a six month testing and commissioning session and the set will then be available for leasing

Do you know where or is it a bit too soon for that?

 

[IanPooleTrains]

Do you know where or is it a bit too soon for that?

Couldn't tell you to be honest

 

[RobShipway]

Just to give you an update on 390054 and it's three stepsisters.

390054 will now be undergoing a six month testing and commissioning session and the set will then be available for leasing

As for 055, 056 and 057, they will be delivered into the Uk as of January, August and December of 2012

The integration of the additional carriages will be starting as of April 2012

Something I read somewhere, not sure seem to suggest that the adding of the additional carriages would be complete by 2016. Is this correct?

 

[Pumbaa]

This moved to Longsight yesterday behind 57314 via Hunts Cross and is returning on Sunday. Anyone know of timings for Sundays move?

 

[swt_passenger]

Something I read somewhere, not sure seem to suggest that the adding of the additional carriages would be complete by 2016. Is this correct?

Bit late this, but no. The extension of the existing trains is supposed to be taking 9 months, start April 2012 completing Dec 2012. It's in the table on page 9 of the ITT linked to by 'geezertronic' earlier.

 

[Pumbaa]

Moving back tonight to Edge Hill;

Longsight 2211
South Parkway 2315
Edge Hill 2323

 

[Nym]

Damn, I'm too late to get into Piccadilly to catch it...