08:53 Charing Cross to Ashford

[Kentish Paul]

Has anyone else travelled on this service?

It is the only "fast" left on the classic main line via Tonbridge. Did it yesterday, left on time, 1 min down at London Bridge and then stopped at Hither Green to let ECS into the depot. Left HG at 09:20 to Tonbridge (arr 09:39/dep 09:40) then a blast across the weald to arrive in Ashford at 10:01 (6 mins early!). So 41 mins Hither Green to Ashford with a stop at Tonbridge? Hm! Enough said.
I know HS1 has brought extra capacity and I use it every day to get to work, (Ashford, Stratford International, Canning Town) but 2 tph Ashford - Tonbridge (off peak) on the 100 mph classic main line is a total waste as on this signalling system trains could run every 2 minutes. But then 2 extra tph "fast" Ashford to London on the classic line (at 50min)
would make HS1 look a bit silly.

P.S. The driver slowed down below linespeed through Sevenoaks (thankfully) as on my previous trip on the same train the transit of Sevenoaks station deposited my coffee on the floor as we crossed the pointwork south of the station.

Its a great run, if you get the chance, do it.

 

[steamybrian]

Has anyone else travelled on this service?

It is the only "fast" left on the classic main line via Tonbridge. Did it yesterday, left on time, 1 min down at London Bridge and then stopped at Hither Green to let ECS into the depot. Left HG at 09:20 to Tonbridge (arr 09:39/dep 09:40) then a blast across the weald to arrive in Ashford at 10:01 (6 mins early!). So 41 mins Hither Green to Ashford with a stop at Tonbridge? Hm! Enough said.
I know HS1 has brought extra capacity and I use it every day to get to work, (Ashford, Stratford International, Canning Town) but 2 tph Ashford - Tonbridge (off peak) on the 100 mph classic main line is a total waste as on this signalling system trains could run every 2 minutes. But then 2 extra tph "fast" Ashford to London on the classic line (at 50min)
would make HS1 look a bit silly.

P.S. The driver slowed down below linespeed through Sevenoaks (thankfully) as on my previous trip on the same train the transit of Sevenoaks station deposited my coffee on the floor as we crossed the pointwork south of the station.

Its a great run, if you get the chance, do it.

I have travelled over this route many, many times with different forms of traction- Steam, Class 33 and 47 haulage, various types of EMU and Eurostars.
I have always enjoyed the thrash from Tonbridge- Ashford.
Maybe its most busiest must have been around 15-20 years ago with the Eurostars using the route plus a mixture of fasts, semi fast and stopping domestic SE trains.

 

[JamesRowden]

But then 2 extra tph "fast" Ashford to London on the classic line (at 50min) would make HS1 look a bit silly.

There isn't the capacity between Tonbridge and Orpington.

 

[telstarbox]

I remember doing the "fast" unexpectedly when boarding the front instead of the rear portion of a train splitting at Tonbridge.

Luckily the Ashford barrier staff were understanding and let me travel back to Staplehurst without penalty!

 

[steamybrian]

There isn't the capacity between Tonbridge and Orpington.

I will dispute that ...!
See my previous comment above when in the 1990s Eurostars plus a mixture of SE fast , semis and stopping trains all used to be pathed between Orpington- Tonbridge.
Today Eurostars and fast SE trains use HS1 ......!!!!

 

[Kentish Paul]

There isn't the capacity between Tonbridge and Orpington.

Maybe you are right. I remember that in 1976 (on indroduction) that HST's were pathed at 2 min intervals ex Paddington (i.e. just over 4 miles apart at line speed) so i think it can be managed that a few extra run between Tonbridge and Orpington given that the route is 4 aspect signalling throughout. Is it not 2tph Ashford, 2tph Hastings, 2tph Tunbridge Wells, 2tph Sevenoaks at the moment between Orpington and Sevenoaks. Not full capacity surely?
Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[JamesRowden]

Maybe you are right. I remember that in 1976 (on indroduction) that HST's were pathed at 2 min intervals ex Paddington (i.e. just over 4 miles apart at line speed) so i think it can be managed that a few extra run between Tonbridge and Orpington given that the route is 4 aspect signalling throughout. Is it not 2tph Ashford, 2tph Hastings, 2tph Tunbridge Wells, 2tph Sevenoaks at the moment between Orpington and Sevenoaks. Not full capacity surely?
Correct me if I am wrong.

More trains can run but not at full speed (as happens during the peak). The problem is that there are three metro stops between Orpington and Sevenoaks, the Sevenoaks to Charing Cross metro services need to cross the Country bound mainline services, Hildenborough (2tph) is between Sevenoaks and Tonbridge, and there is the path crossing directly to the east of Tonbridge station. Making more mainline services call at the small stations would allow more trains to run but would take away the speed that you want. Splitting trains at Tonbridge would also allow more services but once again it would slow the services down.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I will dispute that ...!
See my previous comment above when in the 1990s Eurostars plus a mixture of SE fast , semis and stopping trains all used to be pathed between Orpington- Tonbridge.
Today Eurostars and fast SE trains use HS1 ......!!!!

I think that the number of mainline services between Orpington and Tonbridge is presently the same as it was then:

Pre-HS1

• Eurostar (1tph)
• East Kent (3tph)
• Hastings (2tph)

Post-HS1

• East Kent (2tph)
• Hastings (2tph)
• Tunbridge Wells (2tph)

 

[Antman]

I remember doing the "fast" unexpectedly when boarding the front instead of the rear portion of a train splitting at Tonbridge.

Luckily the Ashford barrier staff were understanding and let me travel back to Staplehurst without penalty!

You didn't need to go through the barrier at Ashford though
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I have travelled over this route many, many times with different forms of traction- Steam, Class 33 and 47 haulage, various types of EMU and Eurostars.
I have always enjoyed the thrash from Tonbridge- Ashford.
Maybe its most busiest must have been around 15-20 years ago with the Eurostars using the route plus a mixture of fasts, semi fast and stopping domestic SE trains.

Yes it certainly is a decent stretch of line, shame that HS1 has reduced it to almost 'Cinderella status':cry:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Has anyone else travelled on this service?

It is the only "fast" left on the classic main line via Tonbridge. Did it yesterday, left on time, 1 min down at London Bridge and then stopped at Hither Green to let ECS into the depot. Left HG at 09:20 to Tonbridge (arr 09:39/dep 09:40) then a blast across the weald to arrive in Ashford at 10:01 (6 mins early!). So 41 mins Hither Green to Ashford with a stop at Tonbridge? Hm! Enough said.
I know HS1 has brought extra capacity and I use it every day to get to work, (Ashford, Stratford International, Canning Town) but 2 tph Ashford - Tonbridge (off peak) on the 100 mph classic main line is a total waste as on this signalling system trains could run every 2 minutes. But then 2 extra tph "fast" Ashford to London on the classic line (at 50min)
would make HS1 look a bit silly.

P.S. The driver slowed down below linespeed through Sevenoaks (thankfully) as on my previous trip on the same train the transit of Sevenoaks station deposited my coffee on the floor as we crossed the pointwork south of the station.

Its a great run, if you get the chance, do it.

I must try and do the Tonbridge to Ashford section one morning

 

[telstarbox]

There were staff checking tickets in the subway.

 

[Antman]

There were staff checking tickets in the subway.

Blimey I've never seen that at Ashford, in fact the barriers are often left open

 

[Kentish Paul]

There were staff checking tickets in the subway.

Which sation, which subway and when, as when i departed there was nobody.

 

[telstarbox]

Ashford International - this was a few years ago.

 

[Bald Rick]

I travelled on this service about a year ago, although I think we called at Sevenoaks.

Arriving 5 early into Tonbridge, the conductor made 3 very clear announcements to say that the train was fast to Ashford, next stop Ashford, for intermediate stations please change here. His last announcement was half a minute before closing the doors. Similar announcements made on the platform, and the CIS was clearly stating ASHFORD INTL ONLY.

On departing Tonbridge, the conductor came through the train checking tickets, and the bloke behind me was going to Paddock Wood :roll: When he was told the train wasn't stopping he said "well how was I supposed to know that?"

The conductor then let him off the fare to Ashford and back. I'd have excessed him for gross ignorance.

 

[mister-sparky]

Orpington to Sevenoaks has always had, and still does have 8tph, that's all it's signalled to take.

Currently:

Sevenoaks - 2tph
Tunbridge Wells - 2tph
Hastings - 2tph
Ashford and beyond - 2tph

The Ashford terminators were switched to run to TW post HS1, so there aren't 2 spare paths as many people believe

 

[yorkie]

So 41 mins Hither Green to Ashford with a stop at Tonbridge? Hm! Enough said..

On 30 December 2004, a 12CEP train did Dover to Victoria in 69 minutes!

Dover Priory 1458
Folkestone Central 1508
Saltwood Jn 1511
Ashford Intl 1519
Headcorn 1526
Paddock Wood 1533
Tonbridge 1537
Sevenoaks 1544
Orpington 1551
Shortlands Jn 1555
Herne Hill 1601
London Victoria 1607

 

[steamybrian]

Orpington to Sevenoaks has always had, and still does have 8tph, that's all it's signalled to take.

Currently:

Sevenoaks - 2tph
Tunbridge Wells - 2tph
Hastings - 2tph
Ashford and beyond - 2tph

The Ashford terminators were switched to run to TW post HS1, so there aren't 2 spare paths as many people believe

The signalling headway for fast trains between Orpington to Sevenoaks is 3 minutes.
There are more than 8 trains per hour over this section in the morning and evening peaks.

Brian
Retired timetable planner for BR Southern Region.

 

[Welshman]

For me, one of the highlights of going to college in Canterbury in 1970-71 was the journey from Charing Cross.

Leaving at 0000, and calling only at Waterloo East, to arrive at Ashford at 0057[sometimes earlier!]. Once round the 60mph-restricted bend at Tonbridge, the driver would really open-up his 4-Cep for the thrash across the Weald. Everything that could rattle did - window droplights, luggage racks, passengers' teeth!

 

[yorksrob]

It is rather sad to see the South Eastern mainline reduced to a suburban stopper. In all my years travelling on it I don't think I ever got a fast through Tonbridge (fast through Paddock Wood was rare enough to be noticeable). Come to think of it, did get a special with the cub's once to see the Royal Tournament but can't remember whether it went fast to London. (was a very long CEP).

 

[cle]

With the speed improvements between Ashford and Ramsgate, the network will get even speedier!

Could there be plans to increase capacity from Orpington to Sevenoaks - either through signalling or loops/passing in some way. From what I remember, it's quite tight and a lot of cuttings.

 

[steamybrian]

With the speed improvements between Ashford and Ramsgate, the network will get even speedier!

Could there be plans to increase capacity from Orpington to Sevenoaks - either through signalling or loops/passing in some way. From what I remember, it's quite tight and a lot of cuttings.

After leaving Orpington the line is on a high embankment to near Chelsfield.
Chelsfield to Polhill Tunnel it is in a deep cutting.
After Polhill Tunnel to Sevenoaks the terrain is undulating.
In preparation for Eurostars in the early 1990s additional tracks/loops were installed-
Bickley Jn-Petts Wood Jn Fast Line spurs increased to double track.
Orpington- revised track layout including 2 new platforms
Sevenoaks- track layout revised with longer loops
Tonbridge- increased to 4 tracks (Barden Park Road bridge- Lodge Oak Lane bridge)
Paddock Wood- platform loops extended.
Additional loops at Cranmore and Headcorn
Ashford-revised track layout