08:00 Cardiff Central-Paignton service

[thehstman]

Hi,
I have been told that First Great Westerns Loco Hauled Service from Cardiff Ctl -Paignton will have Class 150s taking over this service (LO) from the 18th October onwards
is this true?

 

[matt]

Yes, so tomorrow will be the last time it is 67s

 

[387star]

oh I thought it was only the Cardiff-Tauntons which would end as told in Rail magazine? Are both duties to end?

How many 150/1s have been delivered... I am pretty sure almost if not all services on GOBLIN are 172s now?

Am I right the 158 on loan from SWT and the 150/2s from ATW will be sent back to said operators as a direct result of these 150/1s becoming avaliable, along with the locomotive hauled stock?

I believe pacers remain till LM retires 150/1s from its duties

 

[matt]

The Taunton diagram will stay loco hauled for a little longer I believe.

 

[g4mby]

How many 150/1s have been delivered...

According to several other forums, units 150120/123/130 are now at SPM.

 

[YorkshireBear]

the northern 142's are the last to go back to current owners

 

[fgwrich]

Am I right the 158 on loan from SWT and the 150/2s from ATW will be sent back to said operators as a direct result of these 150/1s becoming avaliable, along with the locomotive hauled stock?

I believe pacers remain till LM retires 150/1s from its duties

Well, We say that but if Rail magazine is correct in what it talks of NXEA Hiring two of fgw's finest dogbox's (153s), then will the 158 be heading back to SWT as expected? Or will ATW Gain the remaining 150's on hire?

 

[d1015fan]

today is thelast day for the 67's on Paignton Cardiff diagram, I will be out there today to do some of it. The Taunton Cardiff is rumoured to finish on 5th November with a possible return on run up to Christmas for extra capacity. the three 150's are in St Phillips Marsh ready for monday's take over.

Yesterday 14th October according to gensite was a full day operation of 172's on the gospel oak-barking line.

 

[thefab444]

31st March 2011 was the date bounded around for the end of the TAU - CDF loco hauled.

 

[387star]

What I don't understand is the locomotive hauled trains have more coaches than the 150s replacing them?

I am asuming the 150s will all remain in Silverlink livery for the forseeable future with perhaps a minor refresh if lucky? I do hope they will install better high backed seats eventually??

That is why I was confused I knew the Paignton locomotive hauled turns were ending but expected the Tauntons to continue

 

[YorkshireBear]

so they are running a single 150 in place of a 4 coach loco hauled? hmm, are they losing money renting the loco hauled? because if not they should be kept on, increase capacity with the new 150's not just change trains

 

[noddy1878]

In the past when the loco hauled train failed they put a 153 and 150 on the diagram. Not certain but I bet the number of seats is close. Obviously not as comfortable as the mark 2s as more seats are crammed in.

I was on the 67 hauled yesterday and it'll be sad to see them go as it provided variety.

 

[swt_passenger]

so they are running a single 150 in place of a 4 coach loco hauled? hmm, are they losing money renting the loco hauled? because if not they should be kept on, increase capacity with the new 150's not just change trains

I've heard the DfT effectively pay for the LHCS on the Paigntons, because it was basically needed to cover for the DfT's decision to withdraw SWT services west of Exeter.

Running top and tailed locos and coaches is certain to be far more expensive than a unit or two, so now that DfT have found the necessary units they'll have made the decision to withdraw the LHCS.

 

[anthony263]

I think the date for when then the 2nd FGW loco hauled diagram is replaced by a DMU depends on when London Midland recieve enough class 172's to allow them to displace the class 150's the first 9 of which are supposed to be sent to Northern with the rest heading to FGW.

FGW are to transfer 2 class 153's to National express east anglia to cover for the DMU which is being repaired following the crash it had with that tanker lorry few months ago.

I did hear that London midland were planning on keeping the 3 carriage class 150's they have though.

 

[387star]

I doubt LM need to retain 150s...

So it's official FGW are handing two 153s to NXEA? They will come back in a * state
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
unrelated but quick question: do all virgin 221s have one coach low density seating (First class which becomes declassified when required) including the 4 car sets all but one of which are with virgin?

 

[g4mby]

FGW are to transfer 2 class 153's to National express east anglia to cover for the DMU which is being repaired following the crash it had with that tanker lorry few months ago.

Not according to this thread - http://www.railforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=37421

 

[anthony263]

Not according to this thread - http://www.railforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=37421

I am sure i read somewhere that FGW were going to send 2 class 153's to National Express east anglia but this seems to have changed.

 

[TheWalrus]

so they are running a single 150 in place of a 4 coach loco hauled? hmm, are they losing money renting the loco hauled? because if not they should be kept on, increase capacity with the new 150's not just change trains

It costs around £15k per day to hire a LHS. So yes they are losing a lot of money and therefore a 150 would be much more viable!

 

[43034 The Black Horse]

It costs around £15k per day to hire a LHS. So yes they are losing a lot of money and therefore a 150 would be much more viable!

That doesn't agree with what I saw.......

 

[g4mby]

It costs around £15k per day to hire a LHS. So yes they are losing a lot of money and therefore a 150 would be much more viable!

They haven't been losing any money as the cost has been paid for by the DfT.

 

[43034 The Black Horse]

They haven't been losing any money as the cost has been paid for by the DfT.

Only for the 1st year.

 

[TEW]

The DfT had to pay for everything due to stock shortages. The first diagram was provided to replace a peak time Cross Country service from Plymouth and the second diagram to replace SWT west of Exeter. I FGW had to pay for the LHCS themselves I'm sure they'd find a cheaper option.

 

[TheWalrus]

They haven't been losing any money as the cost has been paid for by the DfT.

Yes but it's still a ridiculously high cost the Daft don't need!

 

[sprinterguy]

I doubt LM need to retain 150s...

So it's official FGW are handing two 153s to NXEA? They will come back in a * state
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
unrelated but quick question: do all virgin 221s have one coach low density seating (First class which becomes declassified when required) including the 4 car sets all but one of which are with virgin?

As g4mby has confirmed, NXEA have received 153354 and 153365 from London Midland to deputise for the damaged 156417, as opposed to any FGW units moving.

The figures in the 150 cascade suggest that London Midland are keeping on as many as ten 150s (a mix of two and three car units), which seems rather unneccessary seeing as the 172 order is only three carriages less than the current 150 fleet, and London Midlands' in-service allocation always seems to leave a comfortable reserve, even during peak hours. The LM portion of the 150 cascade seems to be less than clear with exactly how many 150 carriages are leaving.

Yep, all Voyagers and Super Voyagers, both with Virgin and Crosscountry, have a full carriage of first class seating. The difference between the 4 and 5 carriage units is an extra motor standard inserted in the centre of the set.

In the past when the loco hauled train failed they put a 153 and 150 on the diagram. Not certain but I bet the number of seats is close. Obviously not as comfortable as the mark 2s as more seats are crammed in.

Not sure what formation the four carriage loco hauled train has been in, but assuming four TSOs, which is the highest capacity you can get for the train formation, that gives 256 seats. A 150+153 formation gives [EDIT]188 seats, excluding tip-up seats.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

LM told a public meeting in the spring that they will keep seven 150s (did not say which ones)

 

[MCR247]

Yep, all Voyagers and Super Voyagers, both with Virgin and Crosscountry, have a full carriage of first class seating. The difference between the 4 and 5 carriage units is an extra motor standard inserted in the centre of the set.
.

He didn't mean that. When virgin modded theirs, they moved the shop, and the standard class coach next to First Class was put in a low density formation and can be used as first class.

It happened on the 5 car sets, but I don't know about the 4 car sets

 

[TEW]

Not sure what formation the four carriage loco hauled train has been in, but assuming four TSOs, which is the highest capacity you can get for the train formation, that gives 256 seats. A 150+153 formation gives 184 seats.

3xTSO and 1xBSO so 224 seats. A 150+153 can seat 222 by the figures I have so very little reduction in seating capacity.

 

[sprinterguy]

He didn't mean that. When virgin modded theirs, they moved the shop, and the standard class coach next to First Class was put in a low density formation and can be used as first class.

It happened on the 5 car sets, but I don't know about the 4 car sets

Oh, right, wasn't aware of that: I saw a mention of first class and got confused

3xTSO and 1xBSO so 224 seats. A 150+153 can seat 222 by the figures I have so very little reduction in seating capacity.

True, once you include tip up seats, which I omitted in favour of just counting "proper" chairs, that higher figure is reached. There's quite a few tip up seats on an FGW 150 it seems, and my figure should have been 188, not 184 as well.

LM told a public meeting in the spring that they will keep seven 150s (did not say which ones)

So there you have it!

 

[TEW]

I don't think it is more than 20 tip up seats on and FGW 150 and in my experience they are well used anyway. I have a figure of 147 seats in a 150 and 75 in a 153.

 

[sprinterguy]

I don't think it is more than 20 tip up seats on and FGW 150 and in my experience they are well used anyway. I have a figure of 147 seats in a 150 and 75 in a 153.

I'm just going off figures from the Platform 5 DMU Pocket book, which I tend to trust, but you never know if an error has been made somewhere, which gives the following values:

FGW Class 150:
DMSL: -/60(8)
DMS: -/56(17)

FGW Class 153:
-/72(3)

With the number in brackets being the number of tip-up seats.