07:55 inv - kgx highland cheiftain tomorrow

[mralexn]

i shall be catching (in theory) this service tomorrow, i was just wondering what are the chances of it running?
i see that it has just departed perth, but the lady at the station told me it was being terminated at Perth, so does anyone have a clue what going on with it at the moment?
and what should i do tomorrow if it does not reach inverness?

 

[Donny Dave]

I think the chances of it reaching Inverness tonight are non-existant. I've seen a report (on WNXX I think) of an obstruction on the line at Carrbridge, Also, with the A9 closed most of the way between Dunkeld and Inverness, I wouldn't hold out much hope for being able to travel tomorrow.

As always, check with staff at Inverness tomorrow morning though, as I may be talking a load of baloney (as per usual).

 

[scotsman]

Departer Perth 1917, 77 late. Currently 7 overdue at Pitlochry...

 

[mralexn]

Departer Perth 1917, 77 late. Currently 7 overdue at Pitlochry...

its passed Stanley at 19:33 (84 late) so im guessing its slowly on its way to inverness .... Very Very Slowly!

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

Currently due Inverness 21:42, 1 hour 31 minutes late. If all goes well, it could be running in the morning. Best to check with staff!

 

[mralexn]

Currently due Inverness 21:42, 1 hour 31 minutes late. If all goes well, it could be running in the morning. Best to check with staff!

just checked with staff, apparently there is now a tree on the line at blair atholl so its being held at Pitlochry at the moment

 

[John @ home]

there is now a tree on the line at blair atholl so its being held at Pitlochry at the moment

The tree seems to have been cleared. Yesterday's 12:00 Kings X - Inverness left Aviemore 303 minutes late at 00:32 and is expected in Inverness in a few minutes at 01:11.

 

[mralexn]

The tree seems to have been cleared. Yesterday's 12:00 Kings X - Inverness left Aviemore 303 minutes late at 00:32 and is expected in Inverness in a few minutes at 01:11.

i see its just got in 310 Late!
well at leaste the HST is here thats good,
do you have any idea how many hours "rest" the crew need to have? as i know the driver and the guard are Newcastle crew.

 

[jopsuk]

On the EC Website:

Last update: 07:03:38 09/12/2011

07:55 Inverness to London Kings Cross due 15:55
Details:

This train will be started from Edinburgh at 11:30.It will no longer call at: Inverness, Aviemore, Kingussie, Pitlochry, Perth, Gleneagles, Stirling, Falkirk Grahamston and Haymarket.This is due to high winds earlier.
Further Info:

East Coast apologise for the delay to your journey.

 

[Welshman]

According to the same website, the stock seems to be forming an extra train from Inverness to Edinburgh only at 1135!!

Mralexn - you must let us know how you got on!

 

[jopsuk]

I'm guessing crew minimum rest periods did come into it then.The "extra" will help get the stock back in position

 

[route:oxford]

According to the same website, the stock seems to be forming an extra train from Inverness to Edinburgh only at 1135!!

It will indeed and according to the national rail website, if you change to a Scotrail service at Haymarket, you should arrive into Waverley around 8 minutes quicker than remaining on the Sub-chieftan.

 

[westcoaster]

I'm guessing crew minimum rest periods did come into it then.The "extra" will help get the stock back in position

Driver and guard need 12 hours rest between shifts, so it looks about right to me 0111 in 1135 out 12 hours plus signing on and off.

 

[YorkshireRider]

Driver and guard need 12 hours rest between shifts, so it looks about right to me 0111 in 1135 out 12 hours plus signing on and off.

You are correct it is 12 hours, but how does that look right to you? 12 hours would be 1335 not 1135, the driver for the morning Inverness is a Newcastle driver who takes the 0710 LDS-ABERDEEN, goes over to Inverness and lodges there. However im guessing due to train cancellations and road closures they couldnt make it there and 11 o clock is earliest they could get there next day. The driver of the evening chieftain also lodges in Inverness and then goes over to Aberdeen to work the 1450 and will probably still have done this. The guards work a day on, day off roster and are never rostered to work the next morning out of Inverness if they worked the previous evening, likewise the catering crew. (in the case of the catering crew you can have minimum 10 hours rest if you choose to do overtime so that would be just in the limits). As well as positioning the set this move also allows a guard and catering crew to go down to work todays northbound chieftain back.

 

[junglejames]

You are correct it is 12 hours, but how does that look right to you? 12 hours would be 1335 not 1135, the driver for the morning Inverness is a Newcastle driver who takes the 0710 LDS-ABERDEEN, goes over to Inverness and lodges there. However im guessing due to train cancellations and road closures they couldnt make it there and 11 o clock is earliest they could get there next day. The driver of the evening chieftain also lodges in Inverness and then goes over to Aberdeen to work the 1450 and will probably still have done this. The guards work a day on, day off roster and are never rostered to work the next morning out of Inverness if they worked the previous evening, likewise the catering crew. (in the case of the catering crew you can have minimum 10 hours rest if you choose to do overtime so that would be just in the limits). As well as positioning the set this move also allows a guard and catering crew to go down to work todays northbound chieftain back.

Dont the Edinburgh drivers have an out and back (in a day) Aberdeen turn then? I thought they did, but the only possibility would be the two Aberdeen services you have mentioned.

 

[TEW]

Believe the requirement for rest is less than 12 hours where the turn involves lodging, can't remember the exact requirement though.

 

[Jock]

Believe the requirement for rest is less than 12 hours where the turn involves lodging, can't remember the exact requirement though.

From what I am aware through discussing with one of my former colleagues whom I served with when I was part of the trade union movement, the requirement is 9 hours turnaround when lodging in inverness, the evening guard that works into inverness works back out the following day, only as far as Edinburgh.

 

[Blindtraveler]

you can see why certain foalk would like too see the HC scrapped cant you as its hevy on resauces.

 

[YorkshireRider]

Dont the Edinburgh drivers have an out and back (in a day) Aberdeen turn then? I thought they did, but the only possibility would be the two Aberdeen services you have mentioned.

I can only comment on the perticular driver rosters ive mentioned because ive spoke with the Newcastle drivers and they told me about it. But the 1000 KX-ABERDEEN makes the 1816 ABERDEEN-LDS so maybe that could be a there and back job?
Ive not heard of the 9 hour lodging rule, if it is deemed safety critical staff need 12 hours rest why would lodging make any difference. I thought the guards were Inverness based, like the catering crew but im willing to be corrected on that.

 

[Blindtraveler]

im also willing to be corrected but think the 10:00 KGX - ABD is indeed an out and back for at least some if not all crewe, EDB bassed that is.

 

[mralexn]

According to the same website, the stock seems to be forming an extra train from Inverness to Edinburgh only at 1135!!

Mralexn - you must let us know how you got on!

i managed to get the 09:18 from inverness to Stirling, Jumped ship there, and then went on another service from there (12:36 i think!) and now im on the 1400 EDB - KGX just arriving into Doncaster.
The 09:18 was formed of 6 Coaches instead of 3, it was VERY busy! standing room only in first and standard all the way!
oh and when i left, the HST stock was sat on platform 1, lights off and everything,

 

[A-driver]

The 12 hour rule isn't law, it's a recommendation that pretty much all TOCs follow as it works as a good safe working guide. I believe lodging turns or other local agreements can reduce this-depends on how it is worked in the roster.

If you are lodging you are sort of still at work and don't need to take into account time to get home and back to work etc. if you spend 1+hours getting to work and the same home again then that's not 12 hours rest. If you are put up in a hotel next to the station then you don't need the full 12 I wouldn't have thought.

 

[Welshman]

i managed to get the 09:18 from inverness to Stirling, Jumped ship there, and then went on another service from there (12:36 i think!) and now im on the 1400 EDB - KGX just arriving into Doncaster.
The 09:18 was formed of 6 Coaches instead of 3, it was VERY busy! standing room only in first and standard all the way!
oh and when i left, the HST stock was sat on platform 1, lights off and everything,

Ah well. Glad you got away from Inverness anyway and got to London, albeit later than you envisaged.

 

[mralexn]

Ah well. Glad you got away from Inverness anyway and got to London, albeit later than you envisaged.

Ah well, im glad i spent the extra for first class in the first place, as im getting a total refund :P
and Getting to London was only the start of it, i then got the 1945 PAD - PLY
so yeah, got a few miles in today!

 

[junglejames]

I can only comment on the perticular driver rosters ive mentioned because ive spoke with the Newcastle drivers and they told me about it. But the 1000 KX-ABERDEEN makes the 1816 ABERDEEN-LDS so maybe that could be a there and back job?
Ive not heard of the 9 hour lodging rule, if it is deemed safety critical staff need 12 hours rest why would lodging make any difference. I thought the guards were Inverness based, like the catering crew but im willing to be corrected on that.

One of the Edinburgh lodging turns to Aberdeen departs Aberdeen in the afternoon. This being the driver that arrives on the last arrival the day before. He does all the shunting etc before finishing, so doesnt get to the hotel until the early hours. So you either have the 1450 or 1816.
I will find out for sure later hopefully.

Are there any Inverness based catering crew? As far as I know, the only singing on points for guards, are the same as drivers. ie KX, Leeds, Doncaster if it still exists, Newcastle and Edinburgh.

 

[mralexn]

One of the Edinburgh lodging turns to Aberdeen departs Aberdeen in the afternoon. This being the driver that arrives on the last arrival the day before. He does all the shunting etc before finishing, so doesnt get to the hotel until the early hours. So you either have the 1450 or 1816.
I will find out for sure later hopefully.

Are there any Inverness based catering crew? As far as I know, the only singing on points for guards, are the same as drivers. ie KX, Leeds, Doncaster if it still exists, Newcastle and Edinburgh.

i was talking to a crew leader who signs on at Glasgow yesterday, and yes there are some catering crew that are based inverness.

 

[junglejames]

i was talking to a crew leader who signs on at Glasgow yesterday, and yes there are some catering crew that are based inverness.

Cool, thanks for that. Seems odd having catering staff based there, because they are the only ones. Guards and drivers certainly arent.

Regarding drivers' turns on the Inverness and Aberdeen trains. Newcastle drivers, as mentioned, do the Inverness train, and the same driver comes straight back down the next day, from what I can tell. Aberdeen trains are in the hands of Edinburgh drivers. They have at least one out and back in a day, and one of them leaves Edinburgh in the morning, so unless EC have an ECS movement in the morning up to Aberdeen, which Im pretty sure they dont, its the ex Leeds train that they work up to Aberdeen. Before heading back later on.
Pretty sure no Newcastle drivers work any of the Aberdeens north of Edinburgh though.

 

[wintonian]

The 12 hour rule isn't law, it's a recommendation that pretty much all TOCs follow as it works as a good safe working guide. I believe lodging turns or other local agreements can reduce this-depends on how it is worked in the roster.

If you are lodging you are sort of still at work and don't need to take into account time to get home and back to work etc. if you spend 1+hours getting to work and the same home again then that's not 12 hours rest. If you are put up in a hotel next to the station then you don't need the full 12 I wouldn't have thought.

Yes, but unless the lodgings are at the station or very close by then surely the walk/ taxi time to get there and back still needs to be considered?

 

[mralexn]

Yes, but unless the lodgings are at the station or very close by then surely the walk/ taxi time to get there and back still needs to be considered?

they stay at the ramada, 100 meters from the station inverness. so that should not really be an issue.

 

[richw]

in further to the above, a minimum rest period of 11 hours is required by working time regulations in england, unsure if applicable to scotland. you are permitted less rest period if you opt out of it in writing to your employer!