„Climate Ticket“ in Austria

[Austriantrain]

Even though it is not relevant for Tourists, it might still be interesting as a General topic of discussion.

From 26 October 2021, a new „climate ticket“ will be available in Austria. It will cost € 1095 a year.

It will be valid on *all* Austrian public transport, except in the states of Vienna, Lower Austria and Burgenland, where it will be only valid on rail services (including WESTbahn, which is an important advantage compared to now). The restricted validity in the East of Austria is because negotiations with these federal states have not been finished; it is expected that validity will be extended to all public transport in these states by the end of 2021 or beginning of 2022.

Having a general ticket is very welcome; however, I think it is far too cheap (but the low price was a major issue for the Green Party which forms part of Austria‘s governing coalition).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wow...I know Austria is a bit smaller than the UK but that is still superb value. Unlimited public transport for under £100 a month is certainly something I'd go for.

 

[Austriantrain]

Wow...I know Austria is a bit smaller than the UK but that is still superb value. Unlimited public transport for under £100 a month is certainly something I'd go for.

It’s definitely a great thing, but would still have been perfect value for money für € 1.500-2000.

At it is, the new ticket is significantly cheaper than my season ticket for Vienna and the train trip to the town approx 60 km from Vienna where I work, so I will definitely switch.

 

[zero]

It's not necessarily irrelevant to tourists. If I was planning to visit Austria frequently I would get one

I nearly spent that much on public transport in Switzerland in 2019 though I suppose the prices are not really comparable

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Looking at a few news articles, there is a range of Klimatickets available.
The principle is that you pay €1 a day for travel in one state, €2 to cover adjacent states, and €3 a day for the whole country - hence the €1095 overall national price tag.
There are junior/senior discounts (€821), and also an initial promotion of about 10% off these fares.
The grumbles are that as the fares are subsidised and abstractive, taxpayers will pay more even if they do not use the ticket.
1-2-3 Ticket: Austria's nationwide unlimited rail pass available from October - The Local

When it is launched, the ticket will be valid for all types of travel in Upper Austria, Salzburg, Styria, Carinthia, Tyrol and Vorarlberg, including buses, trains, long-distance trains (i.e. ÖBB) and trams.
Three eastern states – Vienna, Lower Austria and Burgenland – are however still holding out on the project.
As it stands, ÖBB travel in these states as well as bus travel and S-Bahn services will be included in the ticket, along with travel on services operated by Wiener Linien.
Other forms of regional and local transport will not be included in these three states.
Transport Minister Leonore Gewessler said she was confident the other three states would sign up.

 

[Austriantrain]

It's not necessarily irrelevant to tourists. If I was planning to visit Austria frequently I would get one

I nearly spent that much on public transport in Switzerland in 2019 though I suppose the prices are not really comparable

Public transport costs are much lower in Austria than in Switzerland.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

@Austriantrain
Too cheap? What do you think the price should be?

I think people should be encouraged to travel less not more, encouraged to live near work. That saves resources, time, energy, might be a suitable project for the greens if they want a different society. But who knows, the ticket might be withdrawn after a change of government,might be best to reckon with that happening.

There may well be green involvement in the new German government, perhaps they have similar ideas.

 

[DanielB]

Well, within the country isn't that bad I think... Travelling less to save the environment applies more to things like citytrips far away for one weekend by plane for example.

But still incredibly good value for money this ticket. For that price you'd have only unlimited off-peak train travel here, but considering Austria is twice as large as The Netherlands it really is a bargain.

 

[The exile]

@Austriantrain
Too cheap? What do you think the price should be?

I think people should be encouraged to travel less not more, encouraged to live near work. That saves resources, time, energy, might be a suitable project for the greens if they want a different society. But who knows, the ticket might be withdrawn after a change of government,might be best to reckon with that happening.

There may well be green involvement in the new German government, perhaps they have similar ideas.

Given the relative size of Austria and Germany, the BahnCard 100 at 4K€ is comparable

 

[Austriantrain]

Given the relative size of Austria and Germany, the BahnCard 100 at 4K€ is comparable

Is the BC100 for alle public transport? I don’t think so. Once all agreements have been reached, the Klimaticket will be valid everywhere, including urban transport.

The comparable ticket would be the SBB-Generalabonnement, priced at SFR 3860, approx. € 3500 per year. Based on the generally much higher costs in Switzerland, something like € 1900 per year in Austria would be comparable and would be a fair price, which I‘d happily pay.

I am all for affordable public transport and ease of use (which is another major benefit of the new ticket, because it is valid everywhere), but no need to give a good offer away almost for free.

 

[Wolfie]

It's not necessarily irrelevant to tourists. If I was planning to visit Austria frequently I would get one

I nearly spent that much on public transport in Switzerland in 2019 though I suppose the prices are not really comparable

According to the article posted by LNW-GW Joint this is only available to residents of Austria.

 

[The exile]

Is the BC100 for alle public transport? I don’t think so. Once all agreements have been reached, the Klimaticket will be valid everywhere, including urban transport.

The comparable ticket would be the SBB-Generalabonnement, priced at SFR 3860, approx. € 3500 per year. Based on the generally much higher costs in Switzerland, something like € 1900 per year in Austria would be comparable.

It’s nearly fifteen years since I treated myself to one - I think it covered everything in the “Verkehrsverbuende” ( think pte areas for those who don’t like Germanisms) outside there were a few annoying operators who didn’t play ball

 

[Starmill]

I am all for affordable public transport and ease of use (which is another major benefit of the new ticket, because it is valid everywhere), but no need to give a good offer away almost for free.

What is the disadvantage of doing so? In particular, if it earns the full €1.095 in advance for the public transport operators, that is not such a bad deal for them, and it brings high loyalty and user convenience as you note.

Are you against it for taxation reasons? Concern about government deficit? Overcrowding of trains and buses by new users? Or is your concern that spending on day to day matters e.g. cleaning of vehicles will be reduced?

At the end of the day public transport must be cheaper than motoring costs, or there is little hope of decarbonisation. No doubt this is the motivation for the name of the ticket.

 

[Austriantrain]

What is the disadvantage of doing so? In particular, if it earns the full €1.095 in advance for the public transport operators, that is not such a bad deal for them, and it brings high loyalty and user convenience as you note.

Are you against it for taxation reasons? Concern about government deficit? Overcrowding of trains and buses by new users? Or is your concern that spending on day to day matters e.g. cleaning of vehicles will be reduced?

At the end of the day public transport must be cheaper than motoring costs, or there is little hope of decarbonisation. No doubt this is the motivation for the name of the ticket.

Every kind of transport induces direct and indirect costs.While I completely agree that for public transport, it is generally necessary and even desirable for the taxpayer to carry a part of it, I still think users should pay too. They use a service that is of benefit to them, after all.

In addition, yes, there are concerns that capacity will be insufficient and that there there will be less money available to improve it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Sep 2021 ==

It’s nearly fifteen years since I treated myself to one - I think it covered everything in the “Verkehrsverbuende” ( think pte areas for those who don’t like Germanisms) outside there were a few annoying operators who didn’t play ball

Thank you, I wasn’t aware of that. I have looked it up and it seems quite complicated to me to find out on what services outside of DB trains it is accepted.

 

[Starmill]

In addition, yes, there are concerns that capacity will be insufficient and that there there will be less money available to improve it.

I imagine that this is a risk even in the European cities and regions with the best-run public transport services as people are slowly regulated out of their cars to achieve decarbonisation. At least most of Europe is ahead of North America on the matter.

Austria can hope that the Klimaticket will reduce traffic congestion and air pollution also within a few years.

 

[Austriantrain]

I imagine that this is a risk even in the European cities and regions with the best-run public transport services as people are slowly regulated out of their cars to achieve decarbonisation. At least most of Europe is ahead of North America on the matter.

Austria can hope that the Klimaticket will reduce traffic congestion and air pollution also within a few years.

The last paragraph is important. Such a ticket should not be used to induce unnecessary journeys, which incur avoidable costs (and climate consequences, even with rail). The only thing that such a ticket should guarantee is that public transport is consistently cheaper than the car - and to make public transport less complicated to use - so as to encourage a shift from car to PT.

A major reason why I think the price of the new ticket is unnecessarily low.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The last paragraph is important. Such a ticket should not be used to induce unnecessary journeys, which incur avoidable costs (and climate consequences, even with rail). The only thing that such a ticket should guarantee is that public transport is consistently cheaper than the car - and to make public transport less complicated to use - so as to encourage a shift from car to PT.

A major reason why I think the price of the new ticket is unnecessarily low.

To what extent, I wonder, does the UK's free bus pass scheme result in additional journeys rather than modal shift? I'd think it quite low, and similar here, after a possible honeymoon period.

 

[The exile]

Every kind of transport induces direct and indirect costs.While I completely agree that for public transport, it is generally necessary and even desirable for the taxpayer to carry a part of it, I still think users should pay too. They use a service that is of benefit to them, after all.

In addition, yes, there are concerns that capacity will be insufficient and that there there will be less money available to improve it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Sep 2021 ==



Thank you, I wasn’t aware of that. I have looked it up and it seems quite complicated to me to find out on what services outside of DB trains it is accepted.

It is indeed complicated!

 

[dutchflyer]

Germany: that BC 100 is valid on nearly all trains (there are a few exceptions-mostly very old remaining non-DB ´private´ branches and also in around 123 cities on the local bustram/metro within the boundaries of that city. NOT in the complete ´Verbünde´ in any case. In the distant past-in fact when it was still west-BRD, a type of BC was also valid on most of the regional buslines run by DB=Bahnbus but at that time not in cities. In fact for foreigners the longer term InterRail is cheaper (I have one for 2 monthes now), but of course this excludes the city-transport. For most a smaller area is already fine enough and hence about any of the Verbünde or the Länder also offer various and cheaper alternatives.
Indeed in Germany here and there local authorities are also establishing the 1 eur/day monthly option-mostly for their own town or ´Gemeinde=council area only. or for special subgroups like seniors or students/juniors etc. I think Wien-city, a quite big area, also has it.
Praha/CZ is following with a 10 CzK (=about 40 cts)/day season.
In NL we once had-initiative well before the Greens came into being from an environment friendly minister at that time, the OV =openbaar vervoer=public transport, monthly/yearly season which was not that cheap for 1, but very much reduced for the next persons in the family=carload. That was when that ´strippenkaart´ for bustram was introduced, valid in the whole of the country. By now there is-other as in most countries were the seniors get priority treatment- a very wide system for free travel for students in higher education-choose between any weekday or long weekend. The fill many more seats in peaktime as actually ´real´ commuters going to work by train.
Re Österreich: what options remain for those not living there? And what if one decides the thing is not for them and wants to stop it after a few monthes?
BTW-I found some areas cheap enough as a tourist- 7 whole days in Tirol, incl. transit via Germany and Italy, for just 45 eur was bargain friendly for me.

 

[RT4038]

To what extent, I wonder, does the UK's free bus pass scheme result in additional journeys rather than modal shift? I'd think it quite low, and similar here, after a possible honeymoon period.

Additional journeys or modal shift both quite low, after the initial honeymoon period.(There will be some regional variations, for example holiday areas)

 

[johncrossley]

Are people in Austria staying away from public transport because of Covid?

 

[Austriantrain]

Are people in Austria staying away from public transport because of Covid?

Public transport is quite full again, though still less so than before COVID. I‘d estimate about 70-80% compared to before.

Still, this is not the reason for the new ticket. It was a condition for the Greens to enter government, from (just) before the pandemic.

 

[big_rig]

Public transport is quite full again, though still less so than before COVID. I‘d estimate about 70-80% compared to before.

Still, this is not the reason for the new ticket. It was a condition for the Greens to enter government, from (just) before the pandemic.

Are the 'N95' style masks still mandatory on OBB trains, or can the 'surgical' ones be used now? I know some time ago the N95s were made mandatory but it's hard to tell whether this is still the case - I know some of the German states who mandated them are now saying surgical are fine.

It appears the airlines have relaxed their requirement but I can't find information in English about the railways (and buses).

https://www.austrian.com/gb/en/flight-irregularities

The Austrian Federal Government has issued a decree in which, as of 1 July, the obligation to wear masks also on board aircraft will be newly regulated or relaxed. Accordingly, as of 1 July, a surgical mask or a simple mouth-nose protection (community mask) can also be worn during the flight. Austrian Airlines has modified their mask wearing requirements accordingly. Those who wish can of course continue to wear an FFP2 mask on board.

 

[yorksrob]

That's such a good idea, you just know our establishment will never allow anything of the like over here.

It's worth noting that this deal is specifically for Austrian residents, whereas here, UK residents are explicitly excluded from the best value ticket.

 

[Austriantrain]

Are the 'N95' style masks still mandatory on OBB trains, or can the 'surgical' ones be used now? I know some time ago the N95s were made mandatory but it's hard to tell whether this is still the case - I know some of the German states who mandated them are now saying surgical are fine.

It appears the airlines have relaxed their requirement but I can't find information in English about the railways (and buses).

https://www.austrian.com/gb/en/flight-irregularities

Normal face masks were ok over the summer, but from next week, N95 will be back because of the sharp increase in infections and the rather low rate of vaccinated people (not due to a lack of vaccines, mind).

I and most others have continued to use N95 masks throughout- we are used to them by now and in many ways, they are better to wear (and protect us better from the unvaccinated…).

 

[Aictos]

It's a good idea but due to the method of how the UK rail industry is broken up and sometimes doesn't know what the other part is doing eg Network Rail and RSSB having opposing views on if it's safe to travel on the trains I can't see it happening here.

 

[Austriantrain]

Even though it is not relevant for Tourists, it might still be interesting as a General topic of discussion.

From 26 October 2021, a new „climate ticket“ will be available in Austria. It will cost € 1095 a year.

It will be valid on *all* Austrian public transport, except in the states of Vienna, Lower Austria and Burgenland, where it will be only valid on rail services (including WESTbahn, which is an important advantage compared to now). The restricted validity in the East of Austria is because negotiations with these federal states have not been finished; it is expected that validity will be extended to all public transport in these states by the end of 2021 or beginning of 2022.

Having a general ticket is very welcome; however, I think it is far too cheap (but the low price was a major issue for the Green Party which forms part of Austria‘s governing coalition).

An agreement has now been reached and the ticket will also be valid for all public transport (including urban transport) in the three eastern-most Länder, including the city of Vienna.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Having checked on the Klimaticket site: Klimaticket - Tickets and Services it's not obvious if this is for Austrian residents only.
Like the DB BahnCard it is a subscription product with a continuing payment assumption via direct debit.
It's only available on an annual basis, though you can pay monthly - so no 1-month or 3-month versions which would suit tourists.

The web site is in the ÖBB house style, and you can use an ÖBB account to buy the ticket online.
While this is the site for the national product ("Klimaticket Ö"), there will be regional (state) versions, sold separately by their transport groups, and not all will be ready by October 26.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Deutsche Bahn is offering Bahn Card 100 (ALR 12 months) at half price for business customers only, the discounted price is € 2014.

Applying is complicated, you must pay the normal full price, then half is refunded by end of June 2022.

Www.Bahn.de/bc100-klimarabatt

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Just had a look at the Klimaticket site again, and you can buy some regional (state) versions now (more coming later).
Salzburg and Vorarlberg are charging €365 annually, but Steiermark (Graz) is charging €588.
Can't see anything covering 2 states, which would be 2x€365 if they follow the original idea.
For a €100 supplement you can also buy a transferable version of the Steiermark ticket (eg use by other family members on different days).