‘Bluesaver Return’

[flythetube]

Good day to all.

I recently came across this ticket that was being used as a bookmark in a book donated to a charity shop.

Whilst I have discovered a thread on the forum appertaining to or mentioning these. It’s from 2015 and the thread is closed.

ticket validities back in the olden days

Hello, This is supposed to be a question about historic ticketing, though depending in what direction the thread goes it may become more appropriate for one of the other forum sections. Anyway, in my own experiences, ticket checking staff were a lot less strict 15 years plus ago than they...

www.railforums.co.uk

I enclose pics of the front and reverse.

Can anyone tell me if London BR refers to London Bridge or generic London British Rail (similar to London Terminals)?

What does the * asterisk indicate after both origin and destination.

Is there anything else to glean from this ticket?

M after the fare indicates they paid cash for the ticket.

Any info much appreciated.

 

[yorkie]

London BR was the former name for London Terminals.

Blue Saver became Supersaver (under BR); subsequently around 2008 was renamed Super off peak (but some companies abolished them to increase fares)

Similarly, White Saver became Saver then Off Peak (but some companies renamed them Super Off Peak in order to increase the minimum fare and justify a higher Off Peak fare)

 

[Hadders]

Weren't there blue days and white days? Fridays and Saturdays were white days, the rest of the week blue? In essence no Supersavers on Fridays and Saturdays?

The asterisk after the station names is so that it is harder for the ticket to be altered.

 

[flythetube]

Thank you Yorkie and Hadders and to anyone else adding anything to the thread.

 

[Mag_seven]

Weren't there blue days and white days? Fridays and Saturdays were white days, the rest of the week blue? In essence no Supersavers on Fridays and Saturdays?

The asterisk after the station names is so that it is harder for the ticket to be altered.

They were not valid on Fridays and Summer Saturdays i.e. Saturdays during July and August.

I believe they were introduced when BR abolished day returns for journeys over a certain distance.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Weren't there blue days and white days? Fridays and Saturdays were white days, the rest of the week blue? In essence no Supersavers on Fridays and Saturdays?

The asterisk after the station names is so that it is harder for the ticket to be altered.

If memory serves, White (aka Saver) days were something like:

• All Fridays
• Saturdays in July and August
• Three weeks around Christmas and New Year
• Maundy Thursday
• Saturday of the Late Spring Bank Holiday weekend

Would need to see a printed NFM to confirm though, as the calendar was printed inside the front cover IIRC.

Their modern successor being High and Low Saver days for travel agent Inclusive Tour (ITX) tickets.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The date of the £11.55 ticket was 29th October 1987, which was a Thursday. Return travel from Sheringham back to London would, I believe, have been possible up to and including 28th November 1987, albeit attempting travel on any "White" day, as detailed upthread, would almost certainly have resulted in an XS being charged. Current day walk-up Off Peak Return fare for the same journey is £74.10. BTW, what does the 'FAM' showing on the 1987 ticket signify (some discount?) and is it possible to ascertain where the ticket was issued (London Liverpool Street, perhaps); presumably the 0852 showing in the corner is the time of issue?

 

[Hadders]

And people say that in the past railway ticketing was simple....

 

[Bletchleyite]

FAM is family railcard. 0852 is the time of issue. The issuing terminal number is somewhere in the ticket number but I don't know which bit.

 

[yorkie]

And people say that in the past railway ticketing was simple....

In terms of date restrictions, things are simpler now. But in terms of time restrictions, things were simpler then (and no attempts to disregard the Network Area rule, as happens with some TOCs/staff nowadays).

 

[The exile]

The fact that the “grip” / punch is in the ticket rather than on the edge means that that particular ticket inspection was on train rather than at a barrier. Were the various forms of “2” just Eastern Region or was it more localised to Anglia?
As an aside - although the FAM discount would have required the presence of a ticketed child - they were not included in the adult ticket, despite the facility being there to do so. Understandable on tickets for cross-London journeys (barriers) - but was the facility to put multiple people in one ticket ever used? Very large groups (particularly of kids) perhaps?

 

[father_jack]

"4057" is the APTIS machine number, "6965" is London Liverpool Street and "E05" is the window number.

 

[alistairlees]

It was issued at Liverpool Street (6965)

 

[Rover]

Is the "grip" the number 2 or is it just a non descript symbol, or does it represent something?

 

[30907]

SNCF used a similar blue/white/red system - I suspect the idea was adapted by BR.

 

[lyndhurst25]

There were Blue Saver / White Saver days calendar posters displayed at stations. I think that many passengers found the whole thing utterly confusing and seem to remember one of the comedians of the time doing a joke about it on TV. I’m thinking Victoria Wood, or maybe Alexei Sayle.

 

[thedbdiboy]

They were not valid on Fridays and Summer Saturdays i.e. Saturdays during July and August.

I believe they were introduced when BR abolished day returns for journeys over a certain distance.

The original Savers were the 'Big City Savers' introduced on selected flows in 1973. In 1985 there was a major restructuring on the back of BR's move to sectorisation. Cheap Day returns and pretty much all discount 1st Class fares were abolished for journeys over 50 miles to be replaced by Bluesaver/Whitesaver fares in 2nd class and Open (full/Anytime) fares in both classes. From that point too, restaurant cars became bookable only for 1st class passengers, with 2nd class passengers only being admitted on the day subject to availability. The howls of protest over these changes were akin to those we hear regarding the LNER trial.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jul 2025 ==

In terms of date restrictions, things are simpler now. But in terms of time restrictions, things were simpler then (and no attempts to disregard the Network Area rule, as happens with some TOCs/staff nowadays).

The post-1985 BR fares structure (on which I was trained as a booking clerk) was pretty complex; however because it was operated by a single nationalised entity without any external fare regulation or regulation or any Railcards, it had an internal logic that could be learnt and memorised. The imposition of various bits of this logic on a disparate group of TOCs post-privatisation without various other bits coupled with the ideological abolition of any capable body to oversee fares has resulted in the disastrous mess we've ended up with.

Re-learning how to do it again as a single national body is going to take some time; and it's pretty much guaranteed that whatever ends up being the future structure will end up making as many people cross as the 1985 changes did. But at least there will be a single, national, entity at the heart of it accountable to Government.

 

[KT550]

SNCF used a similar blue/white/red system - I suspect the idea was adapted by BR.

A bit off topic, but French domestic airline Air Inter used red/white/blue days for their fares in the 1980s, no doubt derived from the colours of the French flag.

 

[The exile]

Is the "grip" the number 2 or is it just a non descript symbol, or does it represent something?

Well, there were definitely 3s and 5s. Can’t remember any 7s, though which would have been another easy one.

 

[Rail Ranger]

Ron Cotton was said to be the instigator of Saver fares when he was BR Passenger Manager at Liverpool.

 

[davetheguard]

Well, there were definitely 3s and 5s. Can’t remember any 7s, though which would have been another easy one.

Western Region Guards' clip was a 5 shape.