£400 fine!!!

[Puffing Devil]

With the ‘fast tracking’ of Statutory Declarations routinely applied now, if Matthew Smith enters a guilty plea when he makes his declaration, the Court will deal with the matter there and then.

Who will prosecute if there is not a prosecutor for the railway in court? In my experience, all railway matters were deferred until the appropriate prosecutor was scheduled to attend.

Remembering to provide evidence of income, apologising to the Court and TOC and accepting that he was guilty of travelling without first buying a ticket will very substantially reduce the penalty that has been previously imposed.

Apologising, whilst nice, is very unlikely to move the magistrates from their guidelines. Attending and declaring no income as a student, together with a prompt guilty plea, will result in a lower penalty, as I have already described.

 

[matthew smith]

Who will prosecute if there is not a prosecutor for the railway in court? In my experience, all railway matters were deferred until the appropriate prosecutor was scheduled to attend.



Apologising, whilst nice, is very unlikely to move the magistrates from their guidelines. Attending and declaring no income as a student, together with a prompt guilty plea, will result in a lower penalty, as I have already described.

How would i give evidence of no income and is this something i should be taking to court with me?

i am currently on a work placement year with university which i do get paid for (not a lot), would i have to show them this as i finish the placement in august and it isn't really a full time job...

 

[najaB]

would i have to show them this as i finish the placement in august and it isn't really a full time job.

Yes. If it's a fixed-term position then this would be taken into consideration.

 

[Puffing Devil]

How would i give evidence of no income and is this something i should be taking to court with me?

i am currently on a work placement year with university which i do get paid for (not a lot), would i have to show them this as i finish the placement in august and it isn't really a full time job...

Yes. If it's a fixed-term position then this would be taken into consideration.

If it's below £120/week then it will be in your favour, as that will be used to calculate your fine. If not and you will soon be unemployed and can provide evidence of that, the bench may be sympathetic.

Although any financial penalty is due immediately, you can ask for time to pay. For a person on benefits the court will usually agree to £5/week.

 

[Fare-Cop]

Who will prosecute if there is not a prosecutor for the railway in court? In my experience, all railway matters were deferred until the appropriate prosecutor was scheduled to attend.

This is not the case anymore, has not been for some time and was exactly what I was referring to when I mentioned the new fast tracking of Statutory Declarations.

If the defendant accepts guilt and pleads accordingly, the Magistrates are now entitled to re-sentence without the prosecutor present. This is already commonplace in Midlands and Manchester area Courts and some elsewhere. The prosecution are notified that this is the case and the only thing that might also be considered is any application for costs made by the prosecuting dept.

I have recently seen cases where a Statutory Declaration has been made followed by guilty plea along with an apology and MC100 declaration of income submitted, then, what had previously been a substantial fine has been reduced to a conditional discharge and a smaller contribution to costs as a result.

 

[Puffing Devil]

This is not the case anymore, has not been for some time and was exactly what I was referring to when I mentioned the new fast tracking of Statutory Declarations.

If the defendant accepts guilt and pleads accordingly, the Magistrates are now entitled to re-sentence without the prosecutor present. This is already commonplace in Midlands and Manchester area Courts and some elsewhere. The prosecution are notified that this is the case and the only thing that might also be considered is any application for costs made by the prosecuting dept.

I have recently seen cases where a Statutory Declaration has been made followed by guilty plea along with an apology and MC100 declaration of income submitted, then, what had previously been a substantial fine has been reduced to a conditional discharge and a smaller contribution to costs as a result.

Thanks for the update, it's been 3 years since I was in the hotseat, so it looks as if things have moved on a bit. Do they now have a prosecution statement online to read out? Who reads that - the LA?

 

[Fare-Cop]

They will work from the original information and statements on file and on which the conviction was recorded.

Yes, the LA will advise the Bench and as the defendant is now pleading guilty the Magistrates can then revisit the sentence.

 

[RogerDodger]

Ok i'm unsure what the confusion is with this? let me know so i can clear it up... when i got on the train at stockport the gates where open... When i got off at Manchester i had to walk through a manual ticket check which had two people on each door checking tickets. At this point i got stopped...

Did you try leaving the station without paying? Amd not queue up at the desk? If you did then thats classed as fare evasion so you're going to be hit hard for it

 

[Haywain]

Did you try leaving the station without paying? Amd not queue up at the desk? If you did then thats classed as fare evasion so you're going to be hit hard for it

It's really a bit late to worry about that, but in any event the OP passed an opportunity to buy at Stockport. The gates being open wouldn't change that.

 

[matthew smith]

Thanks everyone for your advice.

I'm going to plead guilty and explain the situation with me being in Sheffield and the letters going to my previous home address (not in Sheffield). Hopefully an apology for it ever coming to court and a declaration of no income will get the fine reduced!

 

[ainsworth74]

Please do let us know the outcome as we don't often get to find out what happens and it can be useful to advising those in the future.

 

[matthew smith]

Hi all,

Thought i would update you on what happened at court today. When i arrived i asked to speak to the prosecutor on my case, i was told that their was no prosecutor representing trains today as i think she said it was a "private hearing"?

I was asked to fill out a form before going into court which i wrote i had no earnings as i am a student. At the start the magistrate asked me to swear on the bible, then reading the original fine to me, which i pleaded guilty. I told her i did not know about the fine until a couple weeks ago and explained the situation. Which she then asked me what the original fine was, i couldn't answer as i had never received this letter, the magistrate also had no clue what the original fine was! Due to this she decided that i would have to pay around £80 in total, the exact amount i can't remember. But in total the fine of £400 has been reduced to under £100, so I'm very happy!

 

[najaB]

Due to this she decided that i would have to pay around £80 in total, the exact amount i can't remember. But in total the fine of £400 has been reduced to under £100, so I'm very happy!

Thanks for letting us know. And I'm glad you got a good outcome.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Hi all,

Thought i would update you on what happened at court today. When i arrived i asked to speak to the prosecutor on my case, i was told that their was no prosecutor representing trains today as i think she said it was a "private hearing"?

I was asked to fill out a form before going into court which i wrote i had no earnings as i am a student. At the start the magistrate asked me to swear on the bible, then reading the original fine to me, which i pleaded guilty. I told her i did not know about the fine until a couple weeks ago and explained the situation. Which she then asked me what the original fine was, i couldn't answer as i had never received this letter, the magistrate also had no clue what the original fine was! Due to this she decided that i would have to pay around £80 in total, the exact amount i can't remember. But in total the fine of £400 has been reduced to under £100, so I'm very happy!

It appears that you were dealt with by a District Judge, who sit alone in the Magistrates Court instead of 3 Magistrates. They are qualified lawyers and have usually appeared in court as advocates. They tend to be a little more independent than Magistrates and work a bit faster - though not having to consult helps! I'm thinking the fine imposed was as I speculated, though with only a very small contribution to the TOC costs. A good result for you!

To be strictly correct, you haven't had the fine reduced, as may happen on appeal, you have been re-sentenced, this time with (most) of the correct information to hand.

@Fare-Cop I'm not convinced rushing to re-sentence is such a good thing for the TOC, as it looks as if they've missed the chance of costs and the DJ didn't appear to have the full facts. Progress!