£3,400 fine for fare evasion - advice needed

[berry390]

Hi, I have been whacked with a £3,400 fine because of suspected fare evasion over multiple years, but they are not providing any proof, just trainline travel history.

My travel journey's are inconsistent because I frequently travel to different stations and often without returns to the same place e.g. outward journey -> London Paddington, inward Journey London Paddington-> Twyford. My trainline journey is all over the place but it's just due to my hectic lifestyle.

But they are claiming that I've been buying cheaper tickets in order to travel further, for less.

I have explained to them in detail my personal circumstances but they're not accepting it as proof. Other than giving this explanation, there's no other proof I can offer (apart from getting written confirmation from the people I stay with that live near these stations that I travel to).

Can they successfully make me pay the sum, even if they don't have proof and it is just allegation?
Is it likely they'll take me to court? Should I get a solicitor involved? I am so so stressed.

 

[simonw]

Hi, I have been whacked with a £3,400 fine because of suspected fare evasion over multiple years, but they are not providing any proof, just trainline travel history.

My travel journey's are inconsistent because I frequently travel to different stations and often without returns to the same place e.g. outward journey -> London Paddington, inward Journey London Paddington-> Twyford. My trainline journey is all over the place but it's just due to my hectic lifestyle.

But they are claiming that I've been buying cheaper tickets in order to travel further, for less.

I have explained to them in detail my personal circumstances but they're not accepting it as proof. Other than giving this explanation, there's no other proof I can offer (apart from getting written confirmation from the people I stay with that live near these stations that I travel to).

Can they successfully make me pay the sum, even if they don't have proof and it is just allegation?
Is it likely they'll take me to court? Should I get a solicitor involved? I am so so stressed.

Please post a copy of all correspondence with any identifying information redacted. This will help people give you guidance.

Most people understand what you mean by 'fine' but the train operating company can't fine you. The £3 400 is presumably an offer to settle out of court.

 

[island]

Have you at any point been caught in person by an inspector with an invalid ticket?

 

[AlterEgo]

Please show us ALL the correspondence including your replies to them and your "proof" - and the list of journeys involved. Redact your personal information. And you will need to be very honest about whether or not you have done anything amiss if you want appropriate advice - that goes for whether you want free advice here, or instruct a solicitor.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Can they successfully make me pay the sum, even if they don't have proof and it is just allegation?
Is it likely they'll take me to court?

It's worth knowing there are two sorts of court:
- the criminal courts, which start with the magistrates' and Crown courts. Those deal with crimes, and you plead 'guilty' or 'not guilty'. If you plead 'not guilty' then you have a trial and the prosecution have to prove (in the traditional phrase) 'beyond all reasonable doubt' that you did what you are accused of. That doesn't mean that every other conceivable explanation has been proved not to happen - but if your defence is that little green men from Mars kidnapped you and sent in one of their robots who looked just like you, then the magistrates or jury will probably decide that the 'beyond reasonable doubt' test has been met.

If you plead guilty or are found guilty, the court will sentence you to a punishment: for railway ticketing offences, that's normally you having to pay some money: that's what is officially called a 'fine'

- or there are the civil courts, starting with the small claims court (I think it now has a new name: someone will be along to explain shortly) and the county court. What these courts do is put things right which have gone wrong, by the court deciding who should pay money to who - and how much. Because paying money to resolve a disagreement isn't as serious as sending someone to prison, a lower standard of proof is used, often known as the 'balance of probability '. Essentially, whoever has the best proved story (and the judge is also allowed to use their common sense) wins, and gets the money they're asking for.

Other people have asked you to show what you have got from (and sent to) the railway and we can only give good advice once we've seen that. But from what you have said so far, you seem to be heading for the civil courts: and broadly speaking, if you have no evidence of your story and the railway think it's unlikely, then the railway will win.

 

[johnny_t]

Usually, the way this works is that 'they' catch you doing something wrong, and then they investigate your travel history and find things that are likely to be 'something wrong' as well. You then get the opportunity to be either taken to court for the thing they caught you doing (and getting a criminal record) or coming to a settlement for the both the thing they caught you for and the things they suspect you of.

So, first things first, have they actually caught you doing something ? The answer to this will determine how much leverage they, and you, will have.

 

[MotCO]

Other people have asked you to show what you have got from (and sent to) the railway and we can only give good advice once we've seen that. But from what you have said so far, you seem to be heading for the civil courts: and broadly speaking, if you have no evidence of your story and the railway think it's unlikely, then the railway will win.

But don't forget, just because there are tickets on the OP's account does not mean that s/he used them - they could have bought them for someone else, or indeed, not been used at all. If, as others have said, the OP was stopped in possession of an invalid ticket, then that does put a different slant on it. The offence is not buying 'wrong' tickets, but using them.

 

[AlterEgo]

But don't forget, just because there are tickets on the OP's account does not mean that s/he used them - they could have bought them for someone else, or indeed, not been used at all. If, as others have said, the OP was stopped in possession of an invalid ticket, then that does put a different slant on it. The offence is not buying 'wrong' tickets, but using them.

It's likely there is no "offence" here as it may relate to old journeys which would be the subject of a civil claim. A civil claim only has to be judged on balance of probabilities. But until we see the correspondence we aren't in a position to advise.

 

[berry390]

Hi all, I've attached both letters received.

Please let me know what you think I should do?

Will they accept an offer so I can make this go away as it's causing a great deal of stress on top of other stressful things happening right now.

Thanks for the response so far.

 

[dosxuk]

Hi all, I've attached both letters received.

Please let me know what you think I should do?

Will they accept an offer so I can make this go away as it's causing a great deal of stress on top of other stressful things happening right now.

Thanks for the response so far.

They say they stopped you and you didn't have a valid ticket - is this correct? What were the circumstances of that incident if so?

If they have stopped you and you indeed didn't have a valid ticket then the option is open to them to break off discussions and prosecute you for that one offence.

 

[AlterEgo]

Please show us the correspondence you sent to GWR with your name redacted. It is important to know why they have considered it insufficient - that is, why they don't believe you. If what you sent them is false, and you have indeed been short faring, we need to know. Because we need to give the correct advice.

As it stands, GWR may consider you have committed a longstanding fraud against them; this is a serious offence and you should not attend the interview (which is voluntary) unrepresented. GWR rarely invite people for interviews.

As @dosxuk says we also need to know the circumstances of the offence you were stopped for. Drip feeding information here will not get you the best advice.

 

[berry390]

When they stopped me I had purchased an off peak ticket, and ended up travelling on a peak service. This is because my meeting was cancelled so I ended up going home from work earlier than expected. It was a genuine mistake (I wasn't paying attention to the time of travel and the ticket that I have bought earlier that day).

I apologised for the mistake and purchased a new ticket (the correct one) from the ticket inspector on the spot. He then requested to look at my travel history on my trainline app, which I showed him, then he said my travel history looked suspicious so then decided to report me.

His biggest issue was that I bought two outward tickets to different stations on the same day - but as I explained, I said my travel plans often change spontaneously so I have to change/cancel/refund tickets alllll the time, it even gets hard for me to keep up. My grandma has been ill so sometimes I have to immediately see her. On top of that a relationship breakdown which meant arguments and not being able to go home, on top of work commitments, seeing friends and other stuff - so life is all over the place.


They are assuming / accusing me of trying to get cheaper tickets to travel further. But realistically my plans just chop and change all the time so my history is super messy.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Oct 2025 ==

To add - the thing is there may have been occasions where I used the wrong ticket for the wrong journey, but I wouldn't be able to say which ones, so there might have been some mistakes made there, so there is that.

 

[island]

Will they accept an offer so I can make this go away as it's causing a great deal of stress on top of other stressful things happening right now.

Yes, they will accept an offer of £3334.40. It is rare that settlement amounts are negotiable or payment plans available.

 

[John R]

The correct remedy for holding an off peak ticket but travelling at peak times is for the Train Manager to excess the ticket, not to sell you a new ticket, (nor penalty fare you or report you for prosecution).

So I don’t think you actually committed an offence when stopped, and indeed GWR acted outside the National Rail Conditions of Travel.

 

[berry390]

I won't be able to afford the full amount in one hit. What will they say when I tell them this?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Oct 2025 ==

I didn't realise they were supposed to excess the ticket, not charge me for a new one! So they're in the wrong with that one then?

It was only upon reviewing my trainline app history that they decided to report me. That was unrelated to the former.

 

[blimmo]

I think you need to carefully consider how much of the travel they are questioning you can convincingly show is legitimate. I suspect that if you can show good evidence (like the statements from people you stayed with) for enough of the suspicious looking journeys you will be able to convince them to reduce the amount at least. We have seen GWR accept negotiations of amounts of the settlement for civil claims. Since they don't have an instance they're certain of that they can threaten you with (travelling on an off peak ticket at a peak time is not illegal) you're in a much better position to negotiate.

 

[Haywain]

The correct remedy for holding an off peak ticket but travelling at peak times is for the Train Manager to excess the ticket, not to sell you a new ticket, (nor penalty fare you or report you for prosecution).

That's correct but one would look much like the other to someone who isn't in the know, and the price of an excess, especially on a return ticket, may look much like buying a new one.

 

[fandroid]

I think you need to start from the standpoint that you do not owe them anything. The advice here normally is to never go to a meeting with them. You sound as if you are understandably very nervous about this, and faced with their accusations on their ground you could be led into saying things you do not mean. They don't seem to have any evidence that you travelled any differently from that shown in the ticket purchasing history. Prosecution and the criminal record that follows is extremely unlikely.

 

[berry390]

Thanks. I'm going to see if they'll accept written confirmation that I stay with family as evidence, although I really don't want to drag them into this. I'll keep you guys posted!

 

[dosxuk]

Why would you want to pay money to make this go away if you have genuinely not travelled with an incorrect ticket? And if friends / family can provide corroborating evidence, why wouldn't you want to involve them? Imagine how this looks to someone investigating your purchases.

 

[berry390]

There could be instances in there when the tickets were in fact incorrect, but like I said due to my hectic schedule I wouldn't be able to identify which (but they might be able to?), so its likely there is some wrong doing in there - but deffo not the number they are suggesting.

I'm also worried that if they don't accept the written note from family as evidence, and I go to court, that I will lose as I have no other evidence. The risk seems to high.

 

[Snow1964]

When they stopped me I had purchased an off peak ticket, and ended up travelling on a peak service. This is because my meeting was cancelled so I ended up going home from work earlier than expected. It was a genuine mistake (I wasn't paying attention to the time of travel and the ticket that I have bought earlier that day).

I apologised for the mistake and purchased a new ticket (the correct one) from the ticket inspector on the spot. He then requested to look at my travel history on my trainline app, which I showed him, then he said my travel history looked suspicious so then decided to report me.

If your home, work, staying elsewhere is very irregular, then it won't fit the railways neat and regular presumption. That doesn't make it fraudulent, all it means is an algorithm or someone physically checking hasn't a clue what is genuine

His biggest issue was that I bought two outward tickets to different stations on the same day - but as I explained, I said my travel plans often change spontaneously so I have to change/cancel/refund tickets alllll the time,

That will raise suspicions, normally people don't buy tickets like that, and then regularly get one refunded. However you cannot physically take 2 journeys in different places at same time, so easy to explain. However you could be buying tickets for 2 family members going separately

it even gets hard for me to keep up. My grandma has been ill so sometimes I have to immediately see her. On top of that a relationship breakdown which meant arguments and not being able to go home, on top of work commitments, seeing friends and other stuff - so life is all over the place.

having a crazy life is ok, but again will confuse anyone else trying to look at it

They are assuming / accusing me of trying to get cheaper tickets to travel further. But realistically my plans just chop and change all the time so my history is super messy.

again, just because an algorithm can't figure it, doesn't make it wrong, it can therefore guess wrongly.

To add - the thing is there may have been occasions where I used the wrong ticket for the wrong journey, but I wouldn't be able to say which ones, so there might have been some mistakes made there, so there is that.

That's history now, if they had stopped you at the time, then could genuinely been caught and charged or penalties, but you weren't.

To some extent the railway is on a guesswork fishing trip, making assumptions about your movements and asking you to accuse yourself even when not guilty. They will have negligible evidence and will almost certainly have wiped any cctv over a few weeks old.

Really you only need to worry about the occasion you were caught, for every other trip it's for them to demonstrate you were guilty, not for you to prove innocence.

Expect some follow up threatening (but hollow) letters, but unless there is any evidence, it won't come to anything

 

[AlterEgo]

There could be instances in there when the tickets were in fact incorrect, but like I said due to my hectic schedule I wouldn't be able to identify which (but they might be able to?), so its likely there is some wrong doing in there - but deffo not the number they are suggesting.

What sort of wrongdoing? Most people know if they're fiddling their train fares or not.

I'm also worried that if they don't accept the written note from family as evidence, and I go to court, that I will lose as I have no other evidence. The risk seems to high.

Well a written note is basically valueless on its own because anyone could supply it and it is from a partial witness who is your actual family. Would your family go to court and swear on oath under penalty of perjury?

Please show us the fares involved which they must have provided to you. It is important we see what GWR think is suspicious. Please also show us the *original correspondence* you sent to GWR. This is of paramount importance if you want help because at the moment this is a very expensive mess you're in and you are facing allegations of fraud. This is a serious matter; they've invited you for an interview under caution which is the same procedure the police use to gather evidence. The difference here is you have not been arrested so are not entitled to free legal representation at the interview (and hence you should not attend it).

 

[MotCO]

Does your ticket buying history show 100's of random stations, or maybe only half a dozen. If the latter, can you demonstrate that, for example, A is your current home, B your main office, C is your branch office, D is your parents home, E is your girlfriends home, F is your grandparents house etc? Therefore can you supply these addresses (without giving house numbers) to support your claim? This may help to tip the balance of probability back in your favour.

 

[JBuchananGB]

If the original incident, when the OP was stopped with an off-peak ticket on a peak time train, does not constitute any offence for which they could be prosecuted, would it be sensible to make that point, and see them in court, pleading not guilty? Please upload the original docket issued at the time so that experts here can decide what to do about it.

 

[John R]

That's correct but one would look much like the other to someone who isn't in the know, and the price of an excess, especially on a return ticket, may look much like buying a new one.

Agree, but the point is, they have not been caught with an invalid ticket that could lead to prosecution. So GWR is on weak grounds - more so as their officer failed to take the correct course of action to the OPs financial disadvantage.

 

[AlterEgo]

Agree, but the point is, they have not been caught with an invalid ticket that could lead to prosecution. So GWR is on weak grounds - more so as their officer failed to take the correct course of action to the OPs financial disadvantage.

GWR believe they have detected fraud and have taken the unusual step of inviting the OP to an interview following their disclosure. They might not actually need to prosecute for the original matter, and may construct a case against them. Notably we haven't been allowed by the OP to see anything the OP has said to GWR (evidence) or even the list of fares under scrutiny (also evidence).

Add to this the OP's keenness to settle and roundabout admission of some offending and this is not a simple case.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I think it's worth pointing out that the quick and easy way out of this is to pay GWR what they're asking for. Unfortunately that's not a cheap way out.

So the OP needs to consider the alternatives, which involve rounding up convincing evidence to counter what GWR has found. As has been said above, a letter from a friend or relative isn't likely to be enough in itself: OP needs to be able to state that said friends and relations are willing to stand up in court and confirm what they wrote was true - and to be cross examined on it by a hostile brief.

These alternatives won't be easy to sort out. So the practical choice the OP faces is whether to take the easy but expensive way out, or face the difficulty of coming up with proof of their story.

 

[WesternLancer]

Is this a case where instructing a solicitor who specialises in fare evasion issues might cost less than potentially paying the sum of over £3k being requested?

Might be hard to answer that without having more information as to what has happened / what GWR might have detected. But given the explanations that the OP has set out it may be that a solicitor could present those more effectively than the OP has managed to do so far.

 

[Royston Vasey]

GWR believe they have detected fraud and have taken the unusual step of inviting the OP to an interview following their disclosure. They might not actually need to prosecute for the original matter, and may construct a case against them. Notably we haven't been allowed by the OP to see anything the OP has said to GWR (evidence) or even the list of fares under scrutiny (also evidence).

Add to this the OP's keenness to settle and roundabout admission of some offending and this is not a simple case.

Or rather, a very simple case, of being "bang to rights" as the youth today might say.

But their assertion that every journey started from Hungerford, just because they think the OP may live there, is a bit of a stretch from a legal point of view. I buy all sorts of tickets, including short journeys (I mean short distance, not short faring!) but that is nothing to do with where I live and tickets bought from there. And I also vary my origin station based on time of day, preference, variety, and timetables, but I always have a ticket when I board a train.