£10 refund charge - always payable?

[sparks2000]

Hi,

I made an online purchase (EastMidlands Trains) for an Off Peak return - at the station I was not able to collect as we were inside the two hour collection period.

We travelled to the station early as we noticed online that the earlier service was running late and we could make that train even though we had missed its scheduled time. I purchased new tickets from the machine at the station and we completed our journey. I have not (yet) collected the unused tickets.

EMT website has a £10 refund charge - Is there a way to get a refund without that charge?

I have the replacement (not clipped - but limited to date of issue of course) tickets available if relevant.

How long can I leave the tickets in the machine on the off chance of an opportunity to use them at a future date? If I collect will they be dated for day of collection only? Writing this question made me wonder if I can amend the date to a future date - but I get a message that online changes are not allowed.

Thanks in advance
S.

 

[yorkie]

Hi,

I made an online purchase (EastMidlands Trains) for an Off Peak return - at the station I was not able to collect as we were inside the two hour collection period.

Ah, yes, EMT use Thetrainline, so the tickets are not available instantly.

If you'd used Southern you'd have been able to collect it instantly and also able to obtain a full refund if you chose not to use the tickets and didn't collect them.

We travelled to the station early as we noticed online that the earlier service was running late and we could make that train even though we had missed its scheduled time. I purchased new tickets from the machine at the station and we completed our journey. I have not (yet) collected the unused tickets.

EMT website has a £10 refund charge - Is there a way to get a refund without that charge?

You could contact them and ask.

I have the replacement (not clipped - but limited to date of issue of course) tickets available if relevant.

How long can I leave the tickets in the machine on the off chance of an opportunity to use them at a future date? If I collect will they be dated for day of collection only? Writing this question made me wonder if I can amend the date to a future date - but I get a message that online changes are not allowed.

Yes, EMT - unlike Southern - will penalise you if you want to change the travel date. If you collect the tickets after the first day of validity, the outward portion is effectively unusable. The return portion would remain valid for the period of validity.

I'm not sure if it's best to collect them or not. I suggest you contact EMT.

I'd use Southern in future!

 

[34D]

So the original and the replacement tickets were both off peak returns?

I second the advice to contact the TOC.

I would have also gone to the booking office with my reference number before buying other tickets

 

[bb21]

If the booking is not showing on the machines, the ticket office would be unable to help, since bookings made with TTL-engines are not automatically downloaded into the system, unlike WebTIS.

Last time I had a similar experience, I simply wrote to EMT Customer Services and enclosed the unused ticket, together with the outward portion of the replacement ticket. I was given a full refund as it turned out. From my experience of dealing with EMT, this would be the sort of situation where discretion is likely to be applied, although I cannot offer any guarantee.

I echo the advice to write to the company with an account of what happened. If you have not collected the tickets, simply provide your collection reference and the outward portion of your replacement ticket.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Last time I had a similar experience, I simply wrote to EMT Customer Services and enclosed the unused ticket, together with the outward portion of the replacement ticket. I was given a full refund as it turned out. From my experience of dealing with EMT, this would be the sort of situation where discretion is likely to be applied, although I cannot offer any guarantee....

It is very much a 'gesture of good will' area. The railway didn't force anyone to buy a new ticket, so they don't have to waive the admin fee, but some customer service departments will waive it if they think you will more likely to travel with them again.

....I echo the advice to write to the company with an account of what happened. If you have not collected the tickets, simply provide your collection reference and the outward portion of your replacement ticket.

Absolutely, if you don't ask you don't get.

 

[34D]

If the booking is not showing on the machines, the ticket office would be unable to help, since bookings made with TTL-engines are not automatically downloaded into the system, unlike WebTIS.
.

I had it happen to me. The ticket office stamped me a form to allow me travel, and told me to try at my interchange station.

 

[sparks2000]

Thanks to all for the replies - it is appreciated.

I did not think to try the station staff as I assumed the online ticketing was pretty much closed off to them except to amend tickets as some other rule allows. I knew I was in the wrong and as I did not have the tickets there was no where to take my request. I also believe I should live with my mistakes and not complain / waste time (I see the contradiction of my post here but I assume some of us have an interest in the system for its own sake).

The station I visited has a ticket office on a bridge across the platforms whereas the machine is on the platform near the entrance and I was being lazy - I was not sure that the office would be open on Sunday (very lazy, I now know from Google that someone was there to help and I had to use the bridge to get to my departure platform). Ordinarily I use the booking office as I like stations to have staff and I see supporting the booking office as a way to help. I have to make an exception for advance tickets - in that case I collect at the counter even though I could collect at the machine - not sure if I am helping with customer numbers there.

I will take this issue to EMT and ask for their review. I will do this because I don't believe that a charge implemented by automated systems where they operate for the convenience of the supplier rather than the customer is a fair charge. There is no justification for that that I am aware of?

Another curiosity for me, if a ticket is sold as an off peak return how can the vendor change the terms of the offer vs a ticket collected at the counter? If I travelled without collecting then I would have travelled without a ticket - fair enough. If I don't collect and don't travel then the vendor is allowed to treat the unissued ticket as if it has been collected...

 

[bb21]

I had it happen to me. The ticket office stamped me a form to allow me travel, and told me to try at my interchange station.

I meant that they would not be able to print it out for you.

But yes, they could always authorise travel on a case-by-case basis.

 

[sparks2000]

I had it happen to me. The ticket office stamped me a form to allow me travel, and told me to try at my interchange station.

That is an option that I had not considered - we may not have had time given we were trying to meet the delayed train. As it happened the outward journey did not have a ticket inspection (I assume I would have to find the train manager?) and my destination station was unstaffed on Sunday and the machine out of order - but the train manager on the return would have been able to resolve I assume, or the machine at my return station.

In the past I would have travelled and explained to the train manager. I have done that in the past and been allowed to collect at the next opportunity. Probably the ticket was restricted to a particular train but I don't know that I was questioned that closely. I have had no issues as a result of that behaviour and have been prepared to pay the full walk up fair if requested - that has not happened (mostly Virgin trains). It has only been since following this forum that I have realised that similar actions with other operators could have left me in a very difficult position.

 

[bb21]

The problem is that if the booking is not on the system, staff would be much less likely to authorise travel since they cannot see any evidence of it. That is not to say that they won't.

It is much more common where there is an apparent unreconcilable error of some sort which means that the ticket is not printing correctly (or not printing at all), but the booking itself is visible on the system.

 

[yorkie]

.... I also believe I should live with my mistakes and not complain / waste time (I see the contradiction of my post here but I assume some of us have an interest in the system for its own sake).

Southern would let you collect instantly and have decided that if you make a mistake, and don't print the ticket you can get a full refund.

EMT use a system that doesn't let you collect instantly and have decided that if you make a mistake and choose not to travel, you are charged a £10 admin fee even if you don't print the ticket.

If you believe you should live by your mistakes, then in future I would choose to use a website which doesn't charge you for this type of mistake.

.....I will take this issue to EMT and ask for their review. I will do this because I don't believe that a charge implemented by automated systems where they operate for the convenience of the supplier rather than the customer is a fair charge. There is no justification for that that I am aware of? ...

I totally agree. However, while EMT might refund you as a 'one-off', their policy isn't likely to change.

I'd just switch to Southern, who are much keener to have your business than EMT.

Note that the above only applies to 'walk-up' tickets, not Advance tickets (although Southern do apply the Money Back Guarantee to their own Advance tickets, but not other operators').

 

[sparks2000]

The points about Southern duly noted - thanks for pointing that out.

 

[hassaanhc]

Southern would let you collect instantly and have decided that if you make a mistake, and don't print the ticket you can get a full refund.

EMT use a system that doesn't let you collect instantly and have decided that if you make a mistake and choose not to travel, you are charged a £10 admin fee even if you don't print the ticket.

If you believe you should live by your mistakes, then in future I would choose to use a website which doesn't charge you for this type of mistake.



I totally agree. However, while EMT might refund you as a 'one-off', their policy isn't likely to change.

I'd just switch to Southern, who are much keener to have your business than EMT.

Note that the above only applies to 'walk-up' tickets, not Advance tickets (although Southern do apply the Money Back Guarantee to their own Advance tickets, but not other operators').

Last month I actually managed to get refunded on Advances from other operators! The order included a CDR, a Plusbus, and one each Advance on Hull Trains and East Coast, I was only expecting to get refunded for the CDR but got refunded for the whole lot! On the other hand, another order that only includes Advances (SWT, EMT and EC&Connections) had no option for refund showing, so it isn't something that could be relied on.

 

[talldave]

If you're a Quidco member, you can also get 4% cashback for Southern purchases (going via the Gatwick Express link), which is more than the 2.5% offered for EMT.