Northern Unit Refurbishments and depot allocations.

3RDGEN said:

Branding the 170, 195, 331's or 350's when they arrive I would understand but why put the GBR branding on the dross of the Northern fleet your planning to replace? Perhaps their planning a TfW 14x style branding promoting the departure of those fleets when the new trains order is finally announced?

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Because there's at least five years of daily, active use left in Sprinters based on the Angel lease extensions, and the fact the procurement process for the replacements is only just getting out of the gate... Plus, for what it takes to remove the vinyls and stick one new one on (couple of heat guns, couple of hours), it's worth having the right operator's name on the train in a cost efficient manner, rather than the tarnished relic of franchising that it's replacing, or exercising sheer idiocy through full GBR liveries on 150s. It's a lot better than nothing, it shows that GBR are doing something in the north, and it means that 'Northern' isn't hanging around like a bad smell as GBR rolls out nationwide. It doesn't put good money after bad, but it shows that we're as much a part of GBR as everyone else. There are other base white trains about like on Thameslink - and the white and blue is 'close enough' to GBR that by removing the Northern decals, it's not too out of place - and might actually look OK/reasonably consistent - as it's just a plain livery under all the circles and App Store nonsense.

And to that end, if all those URLs and App Store links stay on the sides of the trains, they have to lead somewhere - GBR aren't going to want to host and maintain Northern's entire brand package - websites, URLs, apps, a degree of PR - why would they dump a load of money into keeping a dead brand they'd replaced on life support when they could pull off a few vinyls from the trains overnight at Newton Heath, and redirect everyone to GBR's apps and sites instead of competing with themselves?
GBR is replacing Northern, if the Northern brand lingers then people will think it still exists, and they'll try to engage with it and wonder why the north has been left behind when everyone else has got GBR.

I'd say it's rather well thought out.


I'm now starting to wonder something though - will the 350/2s get full GBR liveries, or will they go base white to match the rest of the Northern fleet for consistency? I think it's a dead cert whatever they get won't carry any Northern branding though.

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3RDGEN said:

the one that ha been branded will only work the limited "Bee Network" services on an ad-hoc basis anyway since the fleet will be used across the North West?

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323239 isn't Bee Network branded per se, it's a promotional livery saying that Bee Network Rail is 'coming soon'.

david l said:

Agree, not dismissing it - but try living in the north west (far worse than anywhere else in Northernland) with shortforms, cancellations and Sunday non-working.

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The North East is all overcrowded two carriages and mainly knackered 156s, it’s the whole Northern network, not fit for purpose.

3RDGEN said:

Spot on, if all else was working well then OK but they have plenty of more important issues to fix before put "GBR" on the side of units due for replacement.

Back to the issue of the thread, does anyone have a rough estimate for the number/percentage of 150/155/156 fleet left to have bodywork repairs? Presumably the extended works visits for corrosion repairs must come to end at some point and Northern should see an improvement of units available for service?

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155's, two done, one in works, four still to go. Angel 156's I think we are now at 18 done, two in works and nine still to go. Porterbrook 156's seven done, two in works and 28 still to go. 156478 done, I think, before Northern leased it from Brodies in December 2024. These are C6's since the middle of 2023 when I was sad enough to start recording such things! A couple of the units, most recently 156420 in 2026, have been extremely problematic and unreliable since they came back from C6's. There must be "contractual implications" between the TOC, the owning leasing company and the repairer as a result, too complex for me to get my head around?

Soft Hands said:

155's, two done, one in works, four still to go. Angel 156's I think we are now at 18 done, two in works and nine still to go. Porterbrook 156's seven done, two in works and 28 still to go. 156478 done, I think, before Northern leased it from Brodies in December 2024. These are C6's since the middle of 2023 when I was sad enough to start recording such things! A couple of the units, most recently 156420 in 2026, have been extremely problematic and unreliable since they came back from C6's. There must be "contractual implications" between the TOC, the owning leasing company and the repairer as a result, too complex for me to get my head around?

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Thanks, so not very far into those fleets at the current rate of repairs.

rattyben said:

The North East is all overcrowded two carriages and mainly knackered 156s, it’s the whole Northern network, not fit for purpose.

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But at least you can travel on a knackered 156 on a Sunday!

Soft Hands said:

155's, two done, one in works, four still to go. Angel 156's I think we are now at 18 done, two in works and nine still to go. Porterbrook 156's seven done, two in works and 28 still to go. 156478 done, I think, before Northern leased it from Brodies in December 2024. These are C6's since the middle of 2023 when I was sad enough to start recording such things! A couple of the units, most recently 156420 in 2026, have been extremely problematic and unreliable since they came back from C6's. There must be "contractual implications" between the TOC, the owning leasing company and the repairer as a result, too complex for me to get my head around?

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Based on your list, and having scanned back through the last 50 or so pages of this thread, I've documented which 156s from both leasing companies have been refurbished and which haven't:

Angel Completed (18): 438, 443-444, 448, 451, 454, 463, 468-469, 471-472, 475, 481-482, 484, 488, 490-491

Angel In Progress (2): 449, 480

Angel Not Started (9): 447, 465, 479, 483, 485-487, 489, 496

Porterbrook Completed (4): 401, 420, 452, 466

Porterbrook In Progress (2): 410, 423

Porterbrook Not Started (31): 402-406, 408-409, 411-419, 421-422, 424-429, 440-441, 455, 459-461, 464

I will keep this list updated as and when more units are completed

During my trainspotting sessions at Shildon railway station I’ve noticed that 156488 seems to produce a particularly loud deep roaring noise compared with other Class 156s.
Does anyone know what causes it? Is it related to the engine, exhaust, transmission, cooling system, or something specific to this unit?

Here is a YouTube short of the Class 156488 engine sounds that I am referring to
(the video is my property and this is my channel. I spotted this unit myself)

It’s a Very popular unit! Reason is it sounds like a class 142/144.

Sounds like a blowing or otherwise faulty exhaust, at least that would be what would cause that sort of noise on a car.

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DownSlow10 said:

It’s a Very popular unit! Reason is it sounds like a class 142/144.

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Sort of, though I thought those sounded a bit more like a wheezing hairdryer.

Oh I thought faults would get fixed when it went in for it’s C6 overhaul

Bletchleyite said:

Sounds like a blowing or otherwise faulty exhaust, at least that would be what would cause that sort of noise on a car.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Sep 2026 ==



Sort of, though I thought those sounded a bit more like a wheezing hairdryer.

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JasonAtShildon said:

Oh I thought faults would get fixed when it went in for it’s C6 overhaul

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That depends if they're in the scope of the work agreed in the contract (plus any other agreed work arising). Engines and exhausts wouldn't normally be in scope for a C6.

DownSlow10 said:

Any idea when 150001 and 150205 is making a return?

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150205 has been in the shed at Newton Heath for several weeks, now. It was still having work done to it, when I brought a train on late last week and walked to get the taxi back to my depot.

TheEastAnglian said:

150205 has been in the shed at Newton Heath for several weeks, now. It was still having work done to it, when I brought a train on late last week and walked to get the taxi back to my depot.

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What sort of damage has been inflicted on the unit?

DownSlow10 said:

What sort of damage has been inflicted on the unit?

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Collision damage with a car at Hoghton AHB crossing - between Bamber Bridge and Pleasington - in which a little girl sadly died. ISTR it was quite a large car, so there could be some bodywork damage as well as damage to the coupling, electrical and air connections.

Just gone past Neville Hill on a Blackpool to York train which is full and busy.

Whilst passing Neville Hill I was taken aback by the number of 158s and 195s just sat in the sidings at the back or along the front towards the train cleaning services.

Just how bad is this maintenance problem that we've been told about with 195s now being cannibalised for parts to keep other trains running/working?

It just seems an inevitable mess that could have been avoided.

If it's inevitable it can't be avoided.

NorthWestRover said:

If it's inevitable it can't be avoided.

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Leaving aside semantics on phrases used, this seems yet again an example of Northern's incompetence in delivering the basics ( for which it should be noted that being state-owned has made no difference).

MichaelTrains said:

Just gone past Neville Hill on a Blackpool to York train which is full and busy.

Whilst passing Neville Hill I was taken aback by the number of 158s and 195s just sat in the sidings at the back or along the front towards the train cleaning services.

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I can guarantee that there has not been a single 195 stood on Neville Hill all day.

There have been a number of 158s stopped awaiting repair however.

TUC said:

Leaving aside semantics on phrases used, this seems yet again an example of Northern's incompetence in delivering the basics ( for which it should be noted that being state-owned has made no difference).

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Besides managerial oversight and control getting the units to the shed at Newton Heath the rest is on CAF. CAF are the ones who had wheelsets going back to Spain and months long lead times on components. They have just opened a stores depot near Newton Heath and wheel repair place so hopefully things will improve.

skyhigh said:

I can guarantee that there has not been a single 195 stood on Neville Hill all day.

There have been a number of 158s stopped awaiting repair however.

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Well I can assure you that there were at least three around back to the left of the 158s.

MichaelTrains said:

Well I can assure you that there were at least three around back to the left of the 158s.

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Could they have been 331s?

MichaelTrains said:

Well I can assure you that there were at least three around back to the left of the 158s.

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You were probably mistaken, there were 331s and 333s which at speed could easily be assumed to be 195s, but I 100% guarantee there were no 195s on the depot during the day.

Having checked again, there was a 331 stabled next to a 158 if that helps?

195 reliability is awful but all the knackers are elsewhere.

Trainz6013 said:

Based on your list, and having scanned back through the last 50 or so pages of this thread, I've documented which 156s from both leasing companies have been refurbished and which haven't:

Angel Completed: 438, 443-444, 448, 451, 454, 463, 468-469, 471-472, 475, 481-482, 484, 488, 490-491

Angel In Progress: 449, 480

Angel Not Started: 447, 465, 479, 483, 485-487, 489, 496

Porterbrook Completed: 401, 409, 416-417, 420, 452, 466

Porterbrook In Progress: 410, 423

Porterbrook Not Started: 402-406, 408, 411-415, 418-419, 421-422, 424-429, 440-441, 455, 459-461, 464

I will keep this list updated as and when more units are completed

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Good list, but not quite right.
Porterbrook units completed are 156401, 156420, 156452, 156466.

Although 402, 409, 412, 416 - 419 & 422 had a C6 "lite" and corrosion works back in 21/22 they are still part of the current program (at the very back of the plans) so technically haven't been through.

JasonAtShildon said:

During my trainspotting sessions at Shildon railway station I’ve noticed that 156488 seems to produce a particularly loud deep roaring noise compared with other Class 156s.
Does anyone know what causes it? Is it related to the engine, exhaust, transmission, cooling system, or something specific to this unit?

Here is a YouTube short of the Class 156488 engine sounds that I am referring to
(the video is my property and this is my channel. I spotted this unit myself)

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This is all down to the fuel monitoring system that's been fitted to this unit. A different type of silencer has been fitted than normal and it's this that makes that noise when the engine is revving up.

D6130 said:

Collision damage with a car at Hoghton AHB crossing - between Bamber Bridge and Pleasington - in which a little girl sadly died. ISTR it was quite a large car, so there could be some bodywork damage as well as damage to the coupling, electrical and air connections.

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The unit was going to be repaired at depot, but when they cut back the damage there is quite extensive corrosion behind which is far beyond the limits of what can be done at depot, so the units going to be lorried into Gemini for C6 & CSO works as the next unit.

skyhigh said:

You were probably mistaken, there were 331s and 333s which at speed could easily be assumed to be 195s, but I 100% guarantee there were no 195s on the depot during the day.

Having checked again, there was a 331 stabled next to a 158 if that helps?

195 reliability is awful but all the knackers are elsewhere.

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You could be right on the 331s, so please accept my apologies.

It’s good to see the CAF units living up to their “cheap as ####” moniker in 2026.

I remember a Northern manager on my train back in 2019 when they had the problem with the brakes describing them as such.

JasonAtShildon said:

During my trainspotting sessions at Shildon railway station I’ve noticed that 156488 seems to produce a particularly loud deep roaring noise compared with other Class 156s.
Does anyone know what causes it? Is it related to the engine, exhaust, transmission, cooling system, or something specific to this unit?

Here is a YouTube short of the Class 156488 engine sounds that I am referring to
(the video is my property and this is my channel. I spotted this unit myself)

Click to expand...

Just to further add to Diligentdaves comment, it was fitted around September 2016 (so quite a long trial!), the theory behind it is less restriction in the exhaust should improve fuel economy (but i'm guessing the engineer that signed off the trial is no longer with the company and, therefore, it has just stayed). Photos attached show the differences, the modified one is fitted to 52488 (toilet end).

railwork said:

Just to further add to Diligentdaves comment, it was fitted around September 2016 (so quite a long trial!), the theory behind it is less restriction in the exhaust should improve fuel economy (but i'm guessing the engineer that signed off the trial is no longer with the company and, therefore, it has just stayed). Photos attached show the differences, the modified one is fitted to 52488 (toilet end).

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Oh ok thank you

skyhigh said:

You were probably mistaken, there were 331s and 333s which at speed could easily be assumed to be 195s, but I 100% guarantee there were no 195s on the depot during the day.

Having checked again, there was a 331 stabled next to a 158 if that helps?

195 reliability is awful but all the knackers are elsewhere.

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Yes elsewhere is Newton Heath which is so full were currently attaching the homeless trains to others out in service to try make space!

Isn't there a general split where Allerton is the principal maintenance base for the Emu's and 769's whereas Newton Heath has largely been a Dmu maintenance site. Looking at 323218 and 323242 which have just come back into service, the test / initial runs for those appeared to be from Allerton.

MrBeanie said:

Isn't there a general split where Allerton is the principal maintenance base for the Emu's and 769's whereas Newton Heath has largely been a Dmu maintenance site. Looking at 323218 and 323242 which have just come back into service, the test / initial runs for those appeared to be from Allerton.

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You are correct. Allerton looks after its own units.

MrBeanie said:

Isn't there a general split where Allerton is the principal maintenance base for the Emu's and 769's whereas Newton Heath has largely been a Dmu maintenance site. Looking at 323218 and 323242 which have just come back into service, the test / initial runs for those appeared to be from Allerton.

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769s only stable at Newton Heath, no maintenance is carried out there. If the problem is serious enough fitters will come from Allerton to at least get the unit mobile again