Firstly, I believe that he is talking from a position of belief. Secondly, I dislike the pejorative way in which his views are being described, as though there cannot be good faith disbelief and disagreement.
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Reform UK discussion
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What Tice fails to acknowledge is that despite Kent vineyards being able to produce a slightly better wine, the extreme heat in the summers here is leading to severe shock for most of the farming industry. Our water security is now under significant threat, for example.
Indeed - and traders in his constituency are stating that they're losing business because of the heat. I make no defence of the accuracy of his views - merely that the scenario posited by @Tetragon213 is unjustly harsh and, to the extent that it presumes him as in someone else's pocket, underplaying the importance of his own beliefs
Tetragon213
Member
Also they have caused severe shock for quite a large amount of the population.
And around 42% of those were attributable to climate change
More than 2,700 excess deaths estimated in England and Wales during May and June heatwaves
Climate change added between 3-4°C to maximum temperatures and is estimated to be responsible for about 42% of the deaths across both heatwaves
www.metoffice.gov.uk
The rise in heat related mortality is indicative of our infrastructure. A lot of these deaths will be vulnerable or frail people in accommodation which is not climate controlled. Just as it was common for "the winter to get you" when frail and elderly, now the summer is doing likewise. It will be interesting to see how mortality rates in winter shape up as a result of an increased number of people dying in summer.
However cold weather kills many times more than hot. If we're overall shifting warmer, this may result in a net reduction in deaths due to extreme weather.
I think it will be hard to tell. The measurement by the government makes absolutely no note of the cause of death or even the demographic profile of the deaths, it just notes the excess deaths during periods of intense weather. In my experience working in a nursing home in the early 2000s, the winter did see more deaths than any other time of year, but I cannot recall an extreme weather event which caused a spike. But that is just a hazy anecdote.
brad465
Veteran Member
If the North Atlantic circulation shuts down, then we could easily get both; much colder winters due to colder Atlantic waters on our shores, but we could still have heatwaves from the continental Europe influence. The biggest impact though will be drier weather.
Tetragon213
Member
Iirc the UK as a whole is on the same level roughly as Canada, and the weather extremes there are pretty crazy. We're lucky to have enjoyed comparatively temperate weather until now.
With the way climate change is going, we will very much be getting more extreme weather at both ends. Droughts, heatwaves, and fires in summer; and extreme rainfall, blizzards, and flooding in winter. The human cost does not bear thinking about, let alone the economic costs of putting such disasters right or coming up with more extreme mitigations.
Forget about the whole ethical considerations, it just makes plain economic sense to be going after Net Zero and trying to avoid having to deal with the death toll, or the construction of more repairs and extreme measures.
Drier weather will only be an issue if little or nothing continues to be done to harvest and conserve rainfall in the (increasingly) wet periods.
Indeed. This requires very significant infrastructure which would be very very expensive. But Reform don't want to tax anyone who could afford such a tax to pay for it. It's unserious.
I'm not sure how much this is about Reform here, but this post highlights the dangers of pitching net zero vs adaptation. If the weather we've had this summer is a result of climate change (and it is an "if"), then adaptation is already necessary to cope with the climate changes that have already happened.
Going back to Reform, and specifically Richard Tice, the determination to ignore climate change is strange given that his constituency is one of the most extremely exposed to sea level rise.
Eventually the focus turns from "climate change is a hoax" and "it's called summer" to "climate change is natural and nothing we can do will affect it". The latter was already circulated within some climate-skeptic circles but it will only increase as the effects become impossible to ignore. Much of the Reform base will insist we had hot summers in the past but this year alone London has had more days above 30c than across the entire 1980s. Then again evidence-based policy isn't exactly Reform's strongpoint.
spyinthesky
Member
Politics for me seems to be just pointing out how bad other politicians are. Reform just do it to themselves
More specifically I would apply this to adversarial democracies such as our de facto two-party system. I feel like a more consensus-based approached through proportional representation might make everyone a bit less keen on the blame game because the goal is to reach compromise rather than steamroll decisions through the house. Reform do support PR though how long is a question as to whether or not they can benefit from the current system. I imagine Old Slippery Nigel would change his tune to "there are bigger issues the voters care about right now" if polls indicate a massive landslide from first past the post.
Ah, so you've seen BBC Question Time then
Indeed, though I do think it's important for other parties to hold them to account. Partly because otherwise Reform will just ignore the media, not invite them to press gangs, etc in order to bury stories; but also because I think it's healthy that, to an extent, parties hold each other to account and challenge them. It's just that sometimes it gets really tiring, especially when it's just Labour and the Tories blaming the last government for something to do with the economy despite having now been in power for years.
Reform are under investigation by Clacton Council for holding the ‘Farage Fest’, where Nige hid away from ‘nobodies’ for the night after the recent election. The event was allegedly unlicenced as….
www.bbc.co.uk
A bit like their reasons for the election itself Reform said…
Investigation into Reform's party for Nigel Farage in Clacton
It says it did not grant permission for the party's late-night Clacton by-election victory event.
www.bbc.co.uk
brad465
Veteran Member
There was a hotly-watched council by-election in Kent on Thursday, taking place in the Dover area and previously Conservative, where Reform UK and Restore Britain were eyeing up victory in the land where the boats they want to stop turn up. In the end the vote split three ways led to the Greens taking it with just 28.7% of the vote and a winning margin of 34 votes. I also wouldn't be surprised if the 45% turnout is unusually high for a council by-election (or even a normal local election vote):
www.kentonline.co.uk
Green Party triumph in council by-election as right-wing vote splits
A by-election dubbed the “fight for the right” handed the Green Party a historic victory last night by just 34 votes.
GusB
Established Member
"Defriend" - is that similar to "unfriend"?
Perfect nominative determination!"Defriend" - is that similar to "unfriend"?