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Are drivers trained on what to expect to feel from a derailment?
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martin2345uk
Established Member
I've certainly never been specifically trained on that.
zwk500
Veteran Member
I expect one issue with designing any training is that there are a range of ways derailments can happen and a variety of places they can happen which would result in very different feelings in the cab. If you trained for every eventuality you'd never pass anybody out and if you trained for only some eventualities, a driver might have a derailment but think 'oh that doesn't feel like what a derailment would' or something similar.
contrex
Established Member
Didn't the driver at Potter's Bar only know something had happened because the brakes came on?
Acey
Member
- Joined
- 16 Nov 2018
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- 427
Had no training but have had 3 derailments ( in yard 5 mph ) if at the driving end it's a bit hard to miss !
bramling
Veteran Member
IIRC he felt a series of jolts, which was very shortly afterwards followed by the emergency brakes coming on. However he wasn’t aware it was a derailment until looking back along the train.
The report doesn’t actually say, but the fact that he looked back rather than commenced fault-finding on board the train suggests he had quickly formed the opinion something serious was wrong.
There was also a Railtrack manager in the cab who observed a signal briefly revert to danger, which may have been a factor. Again the report isn’t entirely clear, however it seems the driver didn’t notice this, presumably he might have been looking at cab indications to see if anything was indicated that could explain the jolts or brake application. All this would of course have happened within a couple of seconds.
king_walnut
Member
- Joined
- 16 Oct 2013
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- 291
No. We're taught what to do if there is one but not really what it would feel like.
In the case of the Lewes derailment, the coaches came apart so that would have dumped the air pressure and applied the brakes. The driver would have known something major had happened but wouldn't have immediately known that 3 coaches were on their side at the back.
In the case of the Lewes derailment, the coaches came apart so that would have dumped the air pressure and applied the brakes. The driver would have known something major had happened but wouldn't have immediately known that 3 coaches were on their side at the back.
dk1
Veteran Member
In a word, no.
AverageJoe
On Moderation
If would probably be different for freight when driving on different routes, but for me as a passenger toc driver I know the tractions and routes like the back of my hand so I’m pretty sure I’d notice quickly.
Being upside down would also make me think something might have gone wrong too
Being upside down would also make me think something might have gone wrong too
There was a freight on the Gospel Oak-Barking line who managed to go more than two miles without noticing before the brake pipe separated and the brakes applied. It absolutely chewed up the track sleepers and cabling.
Report 12/2020: Derailment of a freight train near Wanstead Park
Derailment of a freight train near Wanstead Park, London, 23 January 2020
InvernessTMD
Member
Can someone smarter than me tell me why this is at all possible? Surely some sort of basic sensor setup to check whether a wagon is still on the rails is possible.There was a freight on the Gospel Oak-Barking line who managed to go more than two miles without noticing before the brake pipe separated and the brakes applied. It absolutely chewed up the track sleepers and cabling.
Report 12/2020: Derailment of a freight train near Wanstead Park
Derailment of a freight train near Wanstead Park, London, 23 January 2020www.gov.uk
Maybe it could check if the wagon isn't at an extreme or impossible angle, that the bogies are not at an extreme or impossible angle and that the wheels of the wagons are still turning and haven't become significantly slower (or faster I suppose) than other wagons in the consist. If one of these is true the driver is alerted (to avoid trains stopping constantly for false alarms) and if two of these are true the emergency brakes are applied.
I understand this would probably be rather expensive. But is there a technological or logistical reason why you couldn't implement something like that? Obviously not exactly what I have said as there's probably much better ways to figure out if a wagon is still on the rails.
TrainOnLine
Member
- Joined
- 17 Aug 2010
- Messages
- 16
I would imagine they would feel sad
I don't know about freight wagons, but don't passenger trains have wheel slip detection? Would that not detect that suddenly one coach's wheels are not doing what the others are doing?
Ashley Hill
Established Member
It would detect a slip but not a derailment.
choochoochoo
Established Member
- Joined
- 6 Aug 2013
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- 1,313
I was thinking wouldn’t dragging derailed coaches be noticeable as an unusually large reduction in speed if the train was coasting or unusually slow acceleration if the train was trying to speed up ?