Euston Dining Club Menu 1963

One strange document I have from the closure files is a menu from the Euston Dining club, Cardington Street, London. It's included in the file because there is a hand written note to someone on the back of it regarding some aspects of the loop line closure. The note by the way was from Jan 1966, so by then, this was just an old menu.

I thought some of you might like to see it.

Once more, to cover myself the following details come from file AN155/185 held by the National Archives, Kew and contains public sector information licensed under the Open Government License v3.0 If you are not familiar with it please have a read:

Open Government License v3.0

Euston Dining Club - Cardington Street
30th May, 1963.

Kidney Soup 5d
Tomato Juice 10d
Grapefruit 9d
Grilled Haddock & Lemon 2/0d
Roast Lamb, Mint Sauce, 2 veg 3/0d
Steak & Kidney Pie & 2 veg 3/0d
Spaghetti Bolognaise, Chips 1/11d
Cold Boiled Silverside 2/0d
Cold Boiled Bacon 2/0d
Veal Pie 1/7d
Salmon Salad 2/10d
Egg Mayonnaise 2/0d
Plain Salad 1/3d
Potato Salad 6d
Russian Salad 6d

*****
Greens, Peas, Carrots 6d
Chips, Mashed or Roast Potatoes 7d

*****
Steamed Sponge Roll & Jam Sauce 7d
Mincemeat Slice & Custard 7d
Open Peach Tart & Custard 7d
Baked Rice Pudding 7d
Compote of Fruit & Custard 9d

*****
Nescafe Coffee 6d
Brown or White Roll 1 ½ d

and there the menu has been torn off!

For each menu item there are actually two prices, one for waitress service and one slightly cheaper for cafeteria. I have shown the waitress service price.

For me, there are a couple of strange things available, Kidney soup for instance, I had never heard of that but apparently it was quite popular in the 1960s. Heinz used to sell it in tins. A quick search around and it seems it was one of those love it or hate it foods, not for me thanks!

Spaghetti Bolognaise with chips - A combination I'd never thought of, I might try that one day.
Mincemeat slice - Presume they mean the traditional mince pie ingredients here?

Coming from the north of England, I can't help noticing there's no mention of gravy, perhaps you had to ask for some? or it's not available?

I know very little about the Euston dining club except it's clearly being used by the BR LM region, and I believe it goes back to LMS days? Apart from managers and staff nearby, I presume this dining club would have been used by regional managers called down to London for meetings, outside parties meeting with BR etc?

If you were a manager called down to London Euston for a meeting, would the meal come out of your own pocket or out of expenses?

Andy873 said:

gravy

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We had that in the south too! Maybe it's just assumed that it'll be on suitable dishes (perhapsnot the spaghetti and chips).

Andy873 said:

One strange document I have from the closure files is a menu from the Euston Dining club, Cardington Street, London.

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When I first worked in London I was a member of the Millbank Luncheon Club. Employees of various companies and organisations could join, but I can't remember whether there was day membership for visitors, as I didn't need to bring in visitors.

Andy873 said:

Roast Lamb, Mint Sauce, 2 veg 3/0d
Steak & Kidney Pie & 2 veg 3/0d

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I think these would have had gravy.

One of the things the menu shows is how difficult it was to be vegetarian in those days. I can't remember the exact date that I became a vegetarian, but I do know that it happened in the Millbank Luncheon Club, part way through a particularly disgusting beef lasagne.

Andy873 said:

Spaghetti Bolognaise, Chips 1/11d

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A girlfriend had spent a period in Australia and was keen on Australian cuisine, such as it is. She once served spaghetti bolognaise with tarragon-flavoured mashed potato on top. Very nice, but it was a bit difficult to move afterwards.

I think that in those days there were various levels of dining room for the differing levels of management. However, the food probably all came from the same kitchen, except possibly the very top; only the prices varied.

Andy873 said:

Spaghetti Bolognaise with chips - A combination I'd never thought of, I might try that one day.

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Spag Bol with chips sounds like a winner. Due to a cock-up in the trackman food cupboard inventory, we had chips and Bol, it was really nice too.

Mincemeat slice - Presume they mean the traditional mince pie ingredients here?

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I assume and hope so, especially with custard!

Andy873 said:

Nescafe Coffee 6d

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18 years after the end of WW2 and such atrocities still happened.

Andy873 said:

One strange document I have from the closure files is a menu from the Euston Dining club, Cardington Street, London. It's included in the file because there is a hand written note to someone on the back of it regarding some aspects of the loop line closure. The note by the way was from Jan 1966, so by then, this was just an old menu.

I thought some of you might like to see it.
[/snip/]


I know very little about the Euston dining club except it's clearly being used by the BR LM region, and I believe it goes back to LMS days? Apart from managers and staff nearby, I presume this dining club would have been used by regional managers called down to London for meetings, outside parties meeting with BR etc?

If you were a manager called down to London Euston for a meeting, would the meal come out of your own pocket or out of expenses?

Click to expand...

Looking at the astonishing length of that menu it must have been a really big establishment, so presumably it was serving several different dining rooms? This was for the Officers and senior managers, there might have been another (with a shorter list?) for salaried staff and another again for wages grades.

Re: mincemeat slice - (traditional) date slice is still fairly common, and this would be the same. Most likely shortcrust pastry, with mincemeat in between as a sandwich. So yes, a mince pie with modified geometry.

Spaghetti bol with chips isn't that odd - up north (possibly down south too) other pasta dishes such as lasagne are often offered with chips (salad as an alternative if you are lucky).

Cardington Street is no more of course, for it will be buried under the HS2 station. I wonder if the Dining Club was actually in the building that became Collectors' Corner for a time? Euston House (built in 1938 as the LMS HQ) surely had a canteen, so the club must have been an oddity even then?

The reference to waitress and self service might be related to grades. Although not dining clubs as such there were several canteens at BRB HQ with the top one for EG/SEGs having waitress service and alcoholic drinks. There was also one for MS4 and above as well, I think I recall.
For a period I used to busk the 'Kings Cross Dining Club' because the LM canteen was dire. The restaurant was on the East side overlooking York Way and the entrance was about opposite the footbridge. There may have been a membership system but I'm not sure yjpugh I can vaguely remember having sometimes to cough up a small amount of cash. the reason for it being called a 'Dining Club' might have been because there was no BR financial involvement apart from the use of station property (possibly without charge but not certainly)

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Sir Felix Pole said:

Cardington Street is no more of course, for it will be buried under the HS2 station. I wonder if the Dining Club was actually in the building that became Collectors' Corner for a time? Euston House (built in 1938 as the LMS HQ) surely had a canteen, so the club must have been an oddity even then?

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I thought that Collectors' Corner occupied the former stables for Euston Parcels.The BRSA Club was in the same area and I think was above what still looked like stables. It's all more than 50 years ago, some things remembered like yesterday others forgotten completely. Possibly the Cardington Street offices were on the station side of the road? I worked with people who had worked there but never thought to ask them, regretfully.
I was only a spotter before Euston was rebuilt but we did once, after a day shed bashing, go into the Great Hall and I remember it as disappointing. We also went into the impressive 'Station Master's Office' - where the public were dealt with. I just can't relate locations in the old station and offices to the new one. The reconstruction involved deep excavation and high hoardings which took away reference points - I can remember being on a DC to Willesden and immediately on the offside of the train there was a sheer drop with mud at the bottom.
When I worked at Euston House early 1970s there was no staff canteen and we used the lunch cafes such as Renny's (??spelling) and the classier 'Mogador' down Eversholt Street, and the snack bar at street level alongside the office entrance - ??Ernesto's. On the 8th floor there was allegedly a restaurant of some opulence but there was strictly no access to the 8th floor (nor possibly the 7th ??) allowed to the worker bees of LM HQ - it was solely for the GM and a few of his senior staff, with self important flunkeys. The kitchen for this restaurant was also the base for the morning tea trolley which had always run out of ham sandwiches by the time it reached us, although the trolley manageress was usually to be seen going home mid-afternoon with the 'left-overs' - usually, amongst other goodies, a complete joint of ham ...
As an aside, Euston House was full-on Art Deco and gave an idea of what Euston station might have been like if war hadn't intervened

Merle Haggard said:

The reference to waitress and self service might be related to grades. Although not dining clubs as such there were several canteens at BRB HQ with the top one for EG/SEGs having waitress service and alcoholic drinks. There was also one for MS4 and above as well, I think I recall.
For a period I used to busk the 'Kings Cross Dining Club' because the LM canteen was dire. The restaurant was on the East side overlooking York Way and the entrance was about opposite the footbridge. There may have been a membership system but I'm not sure yjpugh I can vaguely remember having sometimes to cough up a small amount of cash. the reason for it being called a 'Dining Club' might have been because there was no BR financial involvement apart from the use of station property (possibly without charge but not certainly)

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I thought that Collectors' Corner occupied the former stables for Euston Parcels.The BRSA Club was in the same area and I think was above what still looked like stables. It's all more than 50 years ago, some things remembered like yesterday others forgotten completely. Possibly the Cardington Street offices were on the station side of the road? I worked with people who had worked there but never thought to ask them, regretfully.
I was only a spotter before Euston was rebuilt but we did once, after a day shed bashing, go into the Great Hall and I remember it as disappointing. We also went into the impressive 'Station Master's Office' - where the public were dealt with. I just can't relate locations in the old station and offices to the new one. The reconstruction involved deep excavation and high hoardings which took away reference points - I can remember being on a DC to Willesden and immediately on the offside of the train there was a sheer drop with mud at the bottom.
When I worked at Euston House early 1970s there was no staff canteen and we used the lunch cafes such as Renny's (??spelling) and the classier 'Mogador' down Eversholt Street, and the snack bar at street level alongside the office entrance - ??Ernesto's. On the 8th floor there was allegedly a restaurant of some opulence but there was strictly no access to the 8th floor (nor possibly the 7th ??) allowed to the worker bees of LM HQ - it was solely for the GM and a few of his senior staff, with self important flunkeys. The kitchen for this restaurant was also the base for the morning tea trolley which had always run out of ham sandwiches by the time it reached us, although the trolley manageress was usually to be seen going home mid-afternoon with the 'left-overs' - usually, amongst other goodies, a complete joint of ham ...
As an aside, Euston House was full-on Art Deco and gave an idea of what Euston station might have been like if war hadn't intervened

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Interesting, thanks. If the Dinining Club was on the station side of Cardington Street it must have been one of the last menus - perhaps it was saved as a souvenir? Demolition of the Great Arch started in Nov '61 with work continuing on the rest of the station through to '63.

What a splendid glimpse of the past. How lunch tastes have changed. Interesting to see a price for coffee but no mention of tea. Was this free perhaps, like the morning and afternoon visits of the tea trolley?

Graded dining was commonplace at the time, often with the same food served in both the Officers Mess and the canteen for lower grades. In some organisations the grading of lunching arrangements was even more finely layered. An insurance company I knew in the late 1980s had, amongst others, a Superintendent's Room for its middle managers and a special lunch room just for the secretaries of the senior executives and directors.

The best canteen food on the transport system was probably to be found on the LT at 55 Broadway, when the meals were prepared by Pullman Car Company chefs being trained in the LT training kitchen!

Andy873 said:

Mincemeat slice - Presume they mean the traditional mince pie ingredients here?

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School lunch staple for pudding, baked in big trays, sliced up 4x6 to give 24 pieces, served with custard. And following comparisons from various sports team visits to other schools, ours were the best !

Merle Haggard said:

the reason for it being called a 'Dining Club' might have been because there was no BR financial involvement apart from the use of station property (possibly without charge but not certainly)

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Potentially set up as a charitable non-profit, which would allow certain tax advantages - 1963 was before VAT but when that came along in 1973 it would be even more relevant.

You can imagine my surprise when, reading through eighty eight documents relating to the closure of the branch line I came across a menu from 1963. This had puzzled me since April when I received the documents. Firstly, the menu is typed out in Landscape and the next document (hand written) is Portrait (as are all the others) but I noticed the hand written one had a similar tear mark down one side. When I compared the tear marks they turn out to be the same. So the person at the NA had spotted the note on the back of the menu and that's why the menu has been included.

Rescars said:

What a splendid glimpse of the past. How lunch tastes have changed. Interesting to see a price for coffee but no mention of tea. Was this free perhaps, like the morning and afternoon visits of the tea trolley?

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Yes, it is a fascinating glimpse back to over 60 years. Tea was probably on the part of the menu that was torn off, shame really, would have liked to have seen all of it.

Taunton said:

School lunch staple for pudding, baked in big trays, sliced up 4x6 to give 24 pieces, served with custard. And following comparisons from various sports team visits to other schools, ours were the best !

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Glad to hear yours was the best!

eastwestdivide said:

We had that in the south too! Maybe it's just assumed that it'll be on suitable dishes (perhapsnot the spaghetti and chips).

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It's simply a myth that people in the South of England don't have gravy, it's just something I always look for when having a roast.

Gloster said:

A girlfriend had spent a period in Australia and was keen on Australian cuisine, such as it is. She once served spaghetti bolognaise with tarragon-flavoured mashed potato on top. Very nice, but it was a bit difficult to move afterwards.

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Another interesting combination here, and we've all had too much to eat one time or another.

stuving said:

Re: mincemeat slice - (traditional) date slice is still fairly common, and this would be the same. Most likely shortcrust pastry, with mincemeat in between as a sandwich. So yes, a mince pie with modified geometry.

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I see what you're saying, can't recall seeing it on a menu myself but that is clearly what it would have been.

Merle Haggard said:

The reference to waitress and self service might be related to grades. Although not dining clubs as such there were several canteens at BRB HQ with the top one for EG/SEGs having waitress service and alcoholic drinks. There was also one for MS4 and above as well, I think I recall.

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It looks like then, this dining club had several dining rooms with some restricted to the more senior staff / managers. From experience, plenty of managers talk shop whilst eating lunch about things you might not want other staff to know about.

Magdalia said:

One of the things the menu shows is how difficult it was to be vegetarian in those days.

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I have to say, as a meat eater myself I did notice as I was typing the menu there was little choice for vegetarians, it is however a "slice" of railway / social history if you forgive the pun!

The question remains, was this a menu for management? I think so and here's why - There's quite a few items on there that aren't exactly cheap, seven items are between 2 and 3 shillings, and who has this old menu? The General Manager of the LM Region, we know it's the GM because of the note on the back of it written and signed by him. As to why he's using the back of an old menu I have no idea? And why wouldn't you just get a blank piece of paper to write on?

Taunton said:

School lunch staple for pudding, baked in big trays, sliced up 4x6 to give 24 pieces, served with custard.

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At my school the mincemeat slice was the same as a large Chorley cake but square and served up from the sort of tin you describe. Whether this was exactly the same as that served at the railway restaurants I do not know, but with custard it was very nice indeed.

Andy873 said:

It looks like then, this dining club had several dining rooms with some restricted to the more senior staff / managers.

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To use a railway pun, it was grade separated!

Andy873 said:

The question remains, was this a menu for management?

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The printed menu was for waitress service. The cafeteria probably had the menu on a blackboard or similar.

Andy873 said:

As to why he's using the back of an old menu I have no idea? And why wouldn't you just get a blank piece of paper to write on?

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Because the note was made during lunch, and the menu was the only paper readily available. The odd thing is that the General Manager didn't get his secretary to type out the note for the file.

Andy873 said:

So the person at the NA had spotted the note on the back of the menu and that's why the menu has been included.

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Until 1971 the BRB had their own archivist, who would have decided which files to retain. But the actual filing, when the file contents were "live", would have been done by the General Manager's secretary, or a clerk. The decision that the menu note got onto the file was likely made by the General Manager himself.

In the early 1980s the staff canteen for Euston House staff was located across the road on the 1st floor of the frontage of the station. Access via a staircase on the extreme east of the building.

Lasagne, chips and peas was still a regular lunchtime item in various cafes around Fleet Street in the 1980s and 90s.

It must be 60 years since I had, or thought of, kidney soup. Now I want some.

Re-using expired circulars and similar bumph by writing on the back would have been standard practice in those days, a hangover from paper shortages during WW2. It's more likely that the menu was something that came into the GM's in-tray every day, and would have been fair game for re-use. I think it's unlikely that he would have written notes during lunch in the Club.

I had a Summer holiday job at a scientific research establishment when I was a student.

They had separate dining rooms for technicians or scientists. I had a first degree (B.Sc.) which qualified me to dine with the technicians but I was studying for a post-graduate degree which put me on the path to becoming a scientist. This confused them and they weren't sure which dining room I should use.

I was a young man and most of the technicians were women of a certain age and so I didn't mind dining with them!

Andy873 said:

Yes, it is a fascinating glimpse back to over 60 years. Tea was probably on the part of the menu that was torn off, shame really, would have liked to have seen all of it.

The question remains, was this a menu for management? I think so and here's why - There's quite a few items on there that aren't exactly cheap, seven items are between 2 and 3 shillings, and who has this old menu? The General Manager of the LM Region, we know it's the GM because of the note on the back of it written and signed by him. As to why he's using the back of an old menu I have no idea? And why wouldn't you just get a blank piece of paper to write on?

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You may be right about the tea, but it seems odd not to group tea and coffee together. IIRC production of a duty pass in station buffets attracted a handsome discount on the price of tea, but no discount for coffee. So I wonder if the tea was simply "on tap". As Speedy1 highlights, sad to see that the coffee was instant, especially as BTH had a coffee roasting facility just next door in the vaults of St Pancras.

This is just speculation, but it seems possible that the GM and others entitled to a waitress served lunch might have to been required to place their orders in advance. So the lunch menu might appear in the office at coffee time for the recipient to make key executive decisions for onward transmission to the kitchen. Having been used for its initial purpose, the menu might then easily find its way into the GM's rough paper collection to await further use for casual jotting.

Magdalia said:

The odd thing is that the General Manager didn't get his secretary to type out the note for the file.

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In this note to someone he does say all this is very confidential at the present time. Perhaps he didn't want his secretary reading it? maybe.

Kubes said:

Lasagne, chips and peas was still a regular lunchtime item in various cafes around Fleet Street in the 1980s and 90s.

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Something I've had quite a few times (minus the peas).

contrex said:

It must be 60 years since I had, or thought of, kidney soup. Now I want some.

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It seems there are recipes available online, apparently beef kidney is the best one for the soup.

Frankton Junct said:

They had separate dining rooms for technicians or scientists. I had a first degree (B.Sc.) which qualified me to dine with the technicians but I was studying for a post-graduate degree which put me on the path to becoming a scientist. This confused them and they weren't sure which dining room I should use.

I was a young man and most of the technicians were women of a certain age and so I didn't mind dining with them!

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It must have been confusing to them not knowing where you should eat. On you final comment - I remember when I was 13, we were allowed to drop certain lessons and pick some different ones. A friend of mine picked typing and got his leg pulled for ages over that. Years later I bumped into him and asked him why typing? He said it was because all the others in the class were girls!

Magdalia said:

Until 1971 the BRB had their own archivist, who would have decided which files to retain. But the actual filing, when the file contents were "live", would have been done by the General Manager's secretary, or a clerk. The decision that the menu note got onto the file was likely made by the General Manager himself.

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Something I didn't know or consider. I can see on most of the documents words such as Attach to file, Copy to file, these were initialed by the same person from 1964 to 1968.

4069 said:

Re-using expired circulars and similar bumph by writing on the back would have been standard practice in those days, a hangover from paper shortages during WW2. It's more likely that the menu was something that came into the GM's in-tray every day, and would have been fair game for re-use. I think it's unlikely that he would have written notes during lunch in the Club.

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Something else I hadn't considered, re-using old circulars etc, a good way to do something useful with them as many applied to one specific day only such as the menu from 1963.

Regarding the kitchen - They surely would have liked some sort of idea as to how many managers are going to want Lamb for example at lunch time? You wouldn't want to roast ten legs / shoulders and only sell / use up three?

Andy873 said:

Regarding the kitchen - They surely would have liked some sort of idea as to how many managers are going to want Lamb for example at lunch time? You wouldn't want to roast ten legs / shoulders and only sell / use up three?

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Having worked in public sector finance and auditing, in the 'good old days', I can imagine a number of ways that scenario could be dealt with. Pass the mint sauce!

Andy873 said:

Something else I hadn't considered, re-using old circulars etc, a good way to do something useful with them as many applied to one specific day only such as the menu from 1963.

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Repurposing the backs of redundant printed documents was sometimes carried out on a corporate scale. I have come across GWR luggage labels with evidence of earlier printed forms on their backs. I assume (post-war?) there were stocks of unusable forms at the print works which were turned, reprinted and guillotined in this way as an economy measure.

Rescars said:

As Speedy1 highlights, sad to see that the coffee was instant, especially as BTH had a coffee roasting facility just next door in the vaults of St Pancras.

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I am too young to remember, but in those days I think that it was common to indicate whether your coffee was the full, freshly made with beans job or instant.

Andy873 said:

In this note to someone he does say all this is very confidential at the present time. Perhaps he didn't want his secretary reading it? maybe.

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I would think that his secretary would read just about everything that passed across his desk except the contents of any envelopes marked ‘Personal’ that he kept to himself. My guess is was more likely that the matter was was to remain confidential between the person who he had discussed it with or was writing a note to, possibly because the nature of the proposal might cause negotiating difficulties or other upsets.

Gloster said:

I am too young to remember, but in those days I think that it was common to indicate whether your coffee was the full, freshly made with beans job or instant.

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There is a difference between made with beans and freshly made with beans. It was the impact on flavour caused by the long term storage of percolated coffee in steam heated storage tanks which made instant such an appealing alternative!

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Variations in timings and levels of demand were amongst the reasons for buffet cars to switch to instant in the MaxPax era, whilst restaurant cars continued to served fresh percolated to diners at the end of each sitting.

Rescars said:

What a splendid glimpse of the past. How lunch tastes have changed. Interesting to see a price for coffee but no mention of tea. Was this free perhaps, like the morning and afternoon visits of the tea trolley?

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More likely that it was unthinkable to follow that kind of meal with tea!

Thanks for sharing - snippets like this are always a fascinating read.

The idea of pasta with chips is mind-blowing to me, but also helps explain why abominations like Gregg's are so popular.