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Reform UK discussion

ainsworth74

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Yet Farage can't even crack two thirds of the vote, running against a man with a bin on his head, three self-proclaimed loonies, the Everyone Is God Party, and Laurence Fox. It's not exactly a ringing endorsement.
Exactly. This is Clacton, a place which elected a UKIP MP twice once in 2014 in a by-election (after Douglas Carswell defected to UKIP he did the honourable thing and resigned as MP to trigger a by-election) and then in the 2015 General Election. And with no serious candidates standing against him (Binface amuses me but he's not a serious candidate) that he wasn't able to get into the 70s or even early 80s in terms of vote percentage is, to me, an underperformance. In the 2019 General Election the Tories managed 72.3% of the vote and they were fighting against the usual mainstream parties.

He won and comfortably and will spin it as a ringing endorsement. But I bet if you could get him to tell you the truth he thinks that this was a poor result for him when he was running against a man who wears a plastic bin on his head...
 
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JamesT

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Is going online and ticking a box harder than going out to the polling station?

And remember, we have Farage apologists reminding us it’s the summer holidays and people are away, which is why the turnout was lower than it might have been. That argument applies to those who oppose him too
You can't sign a recall petition online. It's in person, by post, or a proxy.
 

SuspectUsual

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But I bet if you could get him to tell you the truth he thinks that this was a poor result for him when he was running against a man who wears a plastic bin on his head...

And that was after they’d pretty much abandoned campaigning in Manchester, mobilised their army of gobby-on-social-media councillors (Joseph Boam et al), and got the big guns out knocking on doors. (And Lee Anderson)

They were worried. Very worried. And the result shows they were right to be
 

S101

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East India Club, of which Nigel is a member (which still doesn’t allow women).
Oh for goodness sake, turns out theres a womens only club too..... Nitpicking!


Ladies​

In accordance with its constitution, membership of the East India is available only to gentlemen. However the club welcomes ladies as guests of members, has a contingent of honorary ladies and reciprocal ladies can make full use of the clubhouse. For those wishing to join a traditional ladies only membership club you are recommended to The University Women’s Club and their clubhouse in Mayfair. Full details are available from their website www.universitywomensclub.com
 

35B

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At a polling station close by to them where an election was happening. Not sure all of them will go out of their way to go sign a petition. How many are going to do a "Brenda from Bristol" when presented with the possibility?
But by the same token, signing a recall petition is undemanding and will act as a focus for those who oppose Reform. I don't think 10% is a particularly difficult threshold to meet, while response rates will be encouraged by the simple fact that the pre-requisites for a recall will have been met - in other words, that Farage will have been found guilty of what he's currently merely accused of.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Oh for goodness sake, turns out theres a womens only club too.....

That rather misses the point that this is a gentleman's club in St James. Looking briefly at the Wiki entry, I notice the sentence "The majority of the Club's contemporary membership comes from public schools of the Headmasters' and Headmistresses' Conference: proof of a candidate's matriculation at such a school is all that is needed for membership of the Club." That is a criteria that less than 10% of the population meet, and rather fewer could afford to join.

It may not make him "establishment" (a topic on which views may vary), but it certainly doesn't scream "man of the people".
 

BAFRA77

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And the current PM wasn't voted for.

“The current PM wasn’t voted for” is another reheated slogan from people hard of thinking who have mistaken Britain for America. We do not directly elect prime ministers. We elect MPs. If someone wants a presidential system, fine, argue for one.

But pretending this is a scandal only when the outcome irritates you is not democratic vigilance. It is selective amnesia with a tatty flag emoji.
 

35B

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“The current PM wasn’t voted for” is another reheated slogan from people hard of thinking who have mistaken Britain for America. We do not directly elect prime ministers. We elect MPs. If someone wants a presidential system, fine, argue for one.

But pretending this is a scandal only when the outcome irritates you is not democratic vigilance. It is selective amnesia with a tatty flag emoji.
I agree. But, while I fundamentally disagree wit the case @S101 is making, the focus on "didn't vote for the PM" is mildly misleading - the post went on to say "two thirds didn't vote for Labour". That suggests sloppy use of language more than a fundamental misunderstanding.
 

dosxuk

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Probably don't want to focus too much on the PM's electoral record - it's not very long ago he got a much more resounding result against Mr Binface.
 

brad465

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At a polling station close by to them where an election was happening. Not sure all of them will go out of their way to go sign a petition. How many are going to do a "Brenda from Bristol" when presented with the possibility?
But by the same token, signing a recall petition is undemanding and will act as a focus for those who oppose Reform. I don't think 10% is a particularly difficult threshold to meet, while response rates will be encouraged by the simple fact that the pre-requisites for a recall will have been met - in other words, that Farage will have been found guilty of what he's currently merely accused of.
What the now resumed investigation comes back with will be key. If he is given a very long suspension and a rather castigating outlining of the behaviour responsible, this will drive people to sign the petition.

Really, we need much tougher standards for MPs overall that make dismissal for misconduct easier, while we could do with a party funding system that bans all private donations, but that's another story.
 

OhNoAPacer

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Apparently Reform are saying that Nigel Farage has beaten the Establishment candidate.
Now when I was younger Establishment brought up thoughts of bowler hatted senior civil servants or landed gentry in tweed suits, apparently the Establishment is now, checks notes, a man playing a character from another planet who wears a bin on his head.
 

35B

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What the now resumed investigation comes back with will be key. If he is given a very long suspension and a rather castigating outlining of the behaviour responsible, this will drive people to sign the petition.

Really, we need much tougher standards for MPs overall that make dismissal for misconduct easier, while we could do with a party funding system that bans all private donations, but that's another story.
I would be utterly against any system that allowed dismissal of MPs - the decision about who should represent a constituency must remain with the electorate there.

As for private donations, I'd suggest thinking carefully what that may mean as you've phrased it - that would enshrine political parties as quasi-state bodies, with no real need to reflect a segment of public opinion. I detest the Green Party, and disagree fundamentally with it's positions, but I am in no doubt that it is a genuine grass roots expression of a set of views - and that the ability to attract donations is an important part of how they are able to campaign.
 

Class 317

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Anti establishment and one of people. Why then did he not want to be seen with the common no bodies? Does he feel they are beneath him in which case that's normally what a traditional establishment figure would do!

This bi election has given lots of material too pick holes in his anti establishment stance for both opponents and comedians.

A bad night for reform I believe whichever way you look at it from a PR prospective. Can see supporters feeling betrayed by it not ending the investigation, everyone else by a pointless bye election.l and not bothering to accept the result graciously at the count including the normal thanks to all who ran the election is bad form.

Every time now that he moans about wasteful spending he has gifted his opponents a very easy comeback of pointing out the amount wasted on the election.

And as others have said, the vote numbers are not brilliant for them given it's the most fertile constituency for reform politics.
 

Harpo

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Apparently Reform are saying that Nigel Farage has beaten the Establishment candidate.
Superbly rebutted by The Count…
8 weeks ago I got 0.2% of the vote against Andy Burnham in Makerfield and nobody was calling me the establishment
….someone who has been an MP, an MEP who was one of the chief architects of Brexit and one of the dominant figures in British politics for the last 20 years…..(is)….more establishment than a lone wolf space warrior.
 
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STINT47

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The turn out was high for a by-election indicating that Farahe and Reform still has strong support from the electorate. Overall it's been a good outcome for Reform.
 

Tetragon213

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Apparently Reform are saying that Nigel Farage has beaten the Establishment candidate.
Good grief, I do hope this was sarcastic. If they seriously think that a satirical comedy candidate wearing a bin is "the Establishment", I have a bridge and some prime Louisiana swampland to sell them.
 

nlogax

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Good grief, I do hope this was sarcastic. If they seriously think that a satirical comedy candidate wearing a bin is "the Establishment", I have a bridge and some prime Louisiana swampland to sell them.
Earlier in the week I saw an interview with another Reform delusionist claiming that Binface represented "the Establishment" because of his ties to comedy and some BBC work in the past. Very, very hard to take any of these people seriously.
 

BAFRA77

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The turn out was high for a by-election indicating that Farahe and Reform still has strong support from the electorate. Overall it's been a good outcome for Reform.
Some decent analysis from Ian Dunt on Substack this morning:

Clacton byelection: Farage's pyrrhic victory convinces no-one
Farage kept his support in Clacton, but the campaign - self-interested, cynical, sleazy, desperate and ultimately preposterous - hurt his chances across the UK.

Paradoxically, this is actually pretty good evidence of the strategic danger to Reform. It should be impossible to take a local result this strong for Farage and turn it into a demonstration of his weakness, but actually even the Clacton numbers hold worrying signs for his party.

What do we know about Reform, after several byelections? We know that non-Reform voters are highly motivated to vote tactically in order to beat them. In other words, they are not really non-Reform voters, they are anti-Reform voters, who will back almost anyone to stop them.

In Caerphilly in October 2025 tactical voting handed the victory to Plaid. Labour, Green and Lib Dem support collapsed and went to Welsh nationalists. The BBC even reported some Tory voters backing the party. In Gorton and Denton last February it handed the victory to the Greens. Ahead of the vote, 77% Labour voters said they’d vote Green to stop Reform, as did 73% of Lib Dems and 24% of Tories.

We saw a similar pattern towards Labour in Andy Burnham’s Makerfield contest, although it’s obviously complicated by how unusual that byelection was. The ensuing Manchester mayoral byelection last month, on the other hand, provided unusual degrees of clarity. This is because it uses a supplementary system, where voters pick the candidate they most want to win but can express their preferences even if they lose. It allows us to see clearly the kind of thinking which we usually have to interpret from vote share.

Labour’s Bev Craig won 47.1% in the first preference votes against Reform’s 21%. When supplementary voters were distributed, she won 66.3% to Reform’s 33.7%. More in Common polling showed 66% of Green voters backed the Labour candidate as their second choice. They were supported by a sizable minority of Conservative voters.

So that’s the background. Now let’s see what happened in Clacton. This is the most right-wing seat in the country. In 2024 it had the highest combined right vote of any constituency. And that, of course, is why we all expected Farage to win. But even here, in the deepest heartland, there was significant tactical voting. After all, what the hell else is a vote for Count Binface? The normal parties aren’t standing, so he became the default vehicle by which you’d try to stop Reform. This secured him 9,455 votes. For a satirical space alien whose main policy proposal is about the height of a hand dryer in a pub toilet.

Tactical voting is alive and well. This pattern, repeated across the country, is what should trouble Reform. Will it ever stop Farage in Clacton? No. But it’ll ruin him nationally, especially if the Conservative vote holds up.

Farage is caught in a pincer movement. He surely gets the tactical voting problem. He’s not an idiot. But he is now trapped by the X.com eco-system.

Elon Musk has worked diligently to give the ethno-nationalist Rupert Lowe and his Restore party all the momentum, biting Reform’s ankles from even further to the right. Meanwhile, Farage’s own people are degenerating into ever more extreme and angry rhetoric. Reform home affairs spokesman Zia Yusuf branded former defence secretary and member of the armed forces Ben Wallace a “traitor” recently, earning only a mild rebuke from his party leader.

I think we can clearly see that X.com, which now has an ethno-nationalist edge, is pushing right-wingers to adopt radical positions which turn the electorate against them.

Farage is therefore in the worst of all worlds. He is seeing concerted tactical voting against his candidates in diverse areas of the UK - from Wales to Manchester to Clacton itself. His best way of defusing those tactical votes is to moderate the rhetoric of his colleagues, to try to upset people a little less and therefore play less of a role in their voting calculations. But he cannot do so, because the remorseless logic of the X radicalisation algorithm pushes his party towards becoming more severe, or else it loses its activist base and its most highly-engaged voters to Restore.

He’s trapped.
 

Tetchytyke

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I would be utterly against any system that allowed dismissal of MPs - the decision about who should represent a constituency must remain with the electorate there.
We already have it in certain circumstances, though, including where an MP is convicted of an offence and is sentenced to 12 months or more in prison. They automatically lose their seat.

This was brought in in the 1980s as a response to Bobby Sands being elected as an MP despite being in prison at the time.
 

35B

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The turn out was high for a by-election indicating that Farahe and Reform still has strong support from the electorate. Overall it's been a good outcome for Reform.
Hmmm, it suggests that a strong get the vote out operation could be made to work when there are only allegations and no serious opposition (Binface's vote is effectively a mop up of those who'd have voted against anyway). It's making very clear what Reform are, and removing the aura of invincibility they've had in recent years.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

We already have it in certain circumstances, though, including where an MP is convicted of an offence and is sentenced to 12 months or more in prison. They automatically lose their seat.

This was brought in in the 1980s as a response to Bobby Sands being elected as an MP despite being in prison at the time.
Which, in fairness, is where constituents can't be represented by their MP. That's rather different to either a political or administrative process saying "you're fired".
 

Tetchytyke

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On the vast majority of constituencies in the UK, a majority of the voting population doesn't vote for the winning candidate.
And that's the fundamental issue with our electoral system.

My opinion is that you simply cannot have a stable government where the majority of people have not voted for that government.

You also end up with all this tactical voting nonsense. People should go to the polling booth and vote for their preferred party but, instead, they end up feeling compelled to vote for the party who is most likely to beat their least preferred party. A comparison between Runcorn and Makerfield is a great example of the issue: Reform won by 6 votes but 2,000 people voted Green. I am prepared to bet that most of those 2,000 people would have preferred Labour to win.

I quite like the alternative vote system they used in Mayoral elections: you get to vote for your preferred candidate and then, as a backstop, you get a second chance to express your least-worst option.

I am a LibDem and have always voted LibDem but, increasingly, I find that I am voting Labour just to stop the Tories and, now, Reform. It's bad politics and it gives us bad government.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Which, in fairness, is where constituents can't be represented by their MP. That's rather different to either a political or administrative process saying "you're fired".
To an extent, but the people of Fermanagh and South Tyrone were happy for a prisoner to be their MP. But their choice embarrassed the government of the time so they changed the rules to stop it happening again.
 

35B

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To an extent, but the people of Fermanagh and South Tyrone were happy for a prisoner to be their MP. But their choice embarrassed the government of the time so they changed the rules to stop it happening again.
I'm not sure "happy" sums it up given the result suggests that it was very close run (1,447 majority with 3,280 spoiled papers on an 82.3% turnout). As for the prohibition, I'd slightly misunderstood it - it is actually also a bar on such candidates, as well as causing their removal. Given the legal fiction of MPs being "Honourable Members", I'm not shocked that it was introduced
 

alex397

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Oh for goodness sake, turns out theres a womens only club too..... Nitpicking!

How very 19th century.
 

AlterEgo

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Oh for goodness sake, turns out theres a womens only club too..... Nitpicking!

Once Farage defenders have to run this defence it's really over.
 

S101

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Once Farage defenders have to run this defence it's really over.
Why does it upset you? You do realise that women can have women only things too. Not just men, and certainly not just male Reform members. There's a women only gym down the road from me, it doesn't upset me. So why should a woman only club not be comparable to a male only club? Or doesn't that fit the rhetoric.
 

OhNoAPacer

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Why does it upset you? You do realise that women can have women only things too. Not just men, and certainly not just male Reform members. There's a women only gym down the road from me, it doesn't upset me. So why should a woman only club not be comparable to a male only club? Or doesn't that fit the rhetoric.
But it isn't about there being a male only club but that he chose to be a member of a male only club.
 

GusB

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Why does it upset you? You do realise that women can have women only things too. Not just men, and certainly not just male Reform members. There's a women only gym down the road from me, it doesn't upset me. So why should a woman only club not be comparable to a male only club? Or doesn't that fit the rhetoric.
As pointed out in post 3185, the fact that it's a men only club is neither here nor there; it's the sort of people that the club attracts that's relevant. Farage is railing against the establishment while being a member of an organisation that is more or less exclusively for establishment types. If he's supposed to be a "man of the people", he's not exactly showing it.
 

AlterEgo

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Why does it upset you? You do realise that women can have women only things too. Not just men, and certainly not just male Reform members. There's a women only gym down the road from me, it doesn't upset me. So why should a woman only club not be comparable to a male only club? Or doesn't that fit the rhetoric.
It doesn't upset me. It's just that when Farage acolytes have to defend his choice of going to a men's only club by missing the point of the criticism, you know you are wasting your time. As usual, the strategy is to deflect and claim other people are upset somehow. It is very sad to be honest.
 

S101

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It doesn't upset me. It's just that when Farage acolytes have to defend his choice of going to a men's only club by missing the point of the criticism, you know you are wasting your time. As usual, the strategy is to deflect and claim other people are upset somehow. It is very sad to be honest.
Sorry you wasted your time on me. Can't all be super clever. We get it, you don't like Farage. But many, many people do. And their opinion and views aren't wrong, just because you believe that they are. Something, made him popular. Whether that popularity remains, is yet to be seen. But he is popular amongst many, for a reason. A reason you probably don't accept. But the reason he shot to popularity has to be addressed, and not slammed down because of personal opinions.
 

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