46235pete
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Do you have any idea where 197028/029 are please?
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CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.
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craigybagel
Established Member
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It's a rare enough move now that the traincrew were contacted in advance to confirm they were still competent.
197029 is right now at Machynlleth, along with 035 and 039.
tfw756rider
On Moderation
And isn't 197028 long-term out-of-use at Holyhead depot?
Peter Sarf
Established Member
To add, 197029 has been on Cambrian testing and training for quite a while iirc. It is unlikely to leave any time soon unless it leaves that task.
48 in service seems very good especially on a Sunday when there are fewer services overall, so I guess it was just a case of units being in the wrong place. Surprised it wasnt swapped for a 197 somewhere however.
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I wondered whether Crewe would still be able to sign 150s but clearly they must have had some work recently to keep some staff competent on them.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
But 48 units out of 77 seems alarmingly low UNLESS Sundays are really that quiet that 37% of the fleet are not needed ?.
It is low when you base it on the grand total of 77. But there are around 49 diagrams so thats the most that would be expected to be in service at the moment.
I think what people need to remember is 21 of the 197s are for the Cambrian services and these are only helping out at the moment. So its not really fair to include them in the total. When the Cambrian services start we will get a much better picture as 60+ will then be needed each day in service. On paper at the moment its 49 diagrams out of 56 units.
MP393
Member
The guards see them (fairly) regularly on the Heart of Wales, albeit that is becoming uncommon now as well. Drivers it’s definitely more unusual but there have been a fair few moves to & from Canton to Crewe ETD for tyre turning which have Crewe drivers involved.
I was thinking of the Heart of Wales and the occasional Crewe-Shrews stopper. They still turn up fairly often on the Heart of Wales.
Impressive of TFW to put a 150 on the service from Cardiff as they could have just sent the pair of 153s.
MP393
Member
Crewe Shrewsbury locals have extra headaches involved with allocations now as lot are worked by Chester guards who no longer sign 150s or 153s, it’s got to be quite thought out where to put them these days, even when they produce on Birmingham trips now it has to be only where the correct train-crew line up!
craigybagel
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Crewe drivers have had no booked work on 150 or 153 since May. It's a year before competency is lost so for now between the random substitutions and the units coming North from Canton to visit the lathes (as well as the weekly 150 that visits Crewe ETD the 153s that went to Holyhead lathe were also driven by Crewe drivers piloted down the coast) competence has been maintained.
Chester guards have all had their competence removed and that is indeed much more of a challenge for covering services at short notice.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
There should be 21 spare 197s call if fifteen with the other six covering Marshlands and Cambrian testing and training.
How many 197s are needed to cover for Flirts (231 and 756) which are covering for 398s ?.
I'm not sure that really helps. As the maintenance capacity at Chester is finite and based around the non-ETCS fleet only, you'll end up in the same position eventually if you leave broken 197s and replace them with 197es.
In the LTP diagrams I was sent in May, there are 3 x 197 needed for Cheltenham and 3 for Ebbw Vale (4 diagrams in total but one is booked for a pair of 150s currently although most seem to be 150s at the moment!). Short term Cheltenham seems to have at least 1 x 150 regularly too.
When the 231's take over these routes it will certainly help however there is also the new Bristol service from December to consider which will require an extra 197 and there are routes in the South currently booked for Sprinters such as Ebbw Vale to Newport which may involve 197s? Most of the current West Wales Sprinters workings will eventually be 197s as well with maybe a few kept as 153s to move them from Cardiff to Swansea for Heart of Wales. So losing some diagrams to 231's will only partly help I think.
If I was TFW id hang onto the 153s (the regular ones not just the AT sets) as long as possible as they are very useful to cover for the 197s and given the crew will still need to work them for the Heart of Wales it shouldnt be an issue maintaining competency on them.
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Peter Sarf
Established Member
Yes, you are right. We must not forget the finite depot capacity.
Machynlleth is busy with 158s obviously and will eventually have a lot to do with the 21 ETCS 197s (e197s).
When the 398s come on stream they of course do not use existing depot capacity as Taffs Well shoulders that responsibility.
MrBeanie
Member
Is it possible to run a 197 in tandem with the class 158's. There is an ID15 service currently running from Birmingham to llandudno that is showing 197124 plus 2 158's on Rtt and don't know if it's right or not.
amahy
Member
No, that will be a mistake on RTT's part. Most likely, there is a unit swap planned at Shrewsbury, with the 2 158s between Birmingham and Shrewsbury, and 197124 between Shrewsbury and Llandudno.
MrBeanie
Member
Thanks, it sounded unlikely but I hadn't seen something like that come up previously
tfw756rider
On Moderation
It's not Realtime Trains' mistake - the formation data they display is only as good as what the operators provide them with, and it's not uncommon for operators to add the 'new' unit(s) when there's a swap but not remove the 'old' one(s), whether it's a Transport for Wales "197+158 combo" or an Avanti "18/20/22-car Cl. 390 formation".
197+158 can only couple with an adapter for 5mph rescue.
BenBracken
Member
There’s extra services to Fishguard this week for the Eisteddfod, be interesting to know what the loadings are like, especially as the T5 doesn’t run to the station very often and it’s a mile walk to the main bus station! I’d assumed that TfW would cover this with spare 150s/153s but seems to be mostly 197s still, which shows some spare capacity!
These two trains 2E93 and 2E97 normally go to Tenby but have been switched to Fishguard instead.
The Cardiff - Newport fire has reduced demand. No Ebbw to Cardiff service for example.
Looking at the Eisteddfod website there are a variety of public transport options, including an hourly shuttle from Carmarthen station.
wythallpaul
Member
Allocation for 07/08/2026:- 197030 on 5D97.
Clarification:- 5D97 0910 Holyhead Car. M.D. to Chester D.M.U.D
(Source - RTT). Unit has Departed from Holyhead.
One week on from the Aborted Attempt last Friday (31/07) to Move 197030 from Holyhead to Chester it Appears to be Happening Today.
Clarification:- 5D97 0910 Holyhead Car. M.D. to Chester D.M.U.D
(Source - RTT). Unit has Departed from Holyhead.
One week on from the Aborted Attempt last Friday (31/07) to Move 197030 from Holyhead to Chester it Appears to be Happening Today.
tfw756rider
On Moderation
I believe the current plan is:
- September 2026 - 8 197s in service, 10 158s in service but keep all 22 158s for contingency
- October 2026 - 12 197s in service, 6 158s in service, start handing back 158s
- February 2027 - 18 197s in service, 158s phased out
Given the current hand-to-mouth fleet situation on TfW, with little stability anywhere, this programme (with the added challenge of being phased across leaf fall) will be interesting to follow.