JasonL
Member
It's confirmed now that the 20 from Earlestown to St. Helens will be withdrawn on the 6th of September and replaced with Bee Network's 612
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Liverpool City Region-Bus Franchising
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Wondwr if wirrals should follow soon
Fawkes Cat
Established Member
- Joined
- 8 May 2017
- Messages
- 5,246
What the website says at https://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/bus/bus-changes/new-tickets-and-prices/ is
So for up to monthly passes, the time allowed is adequate, but not generous. For annual passes, it occurs to me that a September changeover is very convenient in that anyone buying their ticket for the academic year won't be impacted. So how many other annual passes are out there? And how easy will be the changeover in other areas which don't match the school year?
Polarbear
Established Member
Agree it'll be interesting to see how this pans out. My initial thought was that the allowance for annual passes was especially poor, being only one month from the date of franchised services commencing. I also suspect that the line up with the academic year may just be coincidence, and the one month allowance may well be replicated with future changeover points.
As for usage of annual operator specific tickets, I've no data, but I do see a number of people using Arriva annual passes on the Wirral (where I live). Arriva have been (generally) the larger of the two operators & if one only uses their services & does so regularly, it may well be that it's a better option for some.
Surely Arriva will have to offer some refunds?
Polarbear
Established Member
I'd expect details for Wirral services to appear sometime in mid-September if St Helens is a yardstick.
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I don't know. Does anyone know how this sort of issue was handled in Manchester?
For First, see below:-
Oldham services to join the Bee Network
All services operated by First Manchester from Oldham into Greater Manchester will become part of the Bee Network from 24 March. The depot on Wallshaw Street, Oldham will transfer to Transport for Greater Manchester (TfGM) with Bee Network services operated by Stagecoach.
Statto
Established Member
I see the 34, 34A frequencies are being tidied up, from the current awkward every 40 minutes (every 20 minutes over common sections) to every 30 minutes (every 15 minutes over common sections), with evening & Sunday service extended to Leigh
The X3 is an interesting route, from Lea Green it goes through Clock Face & Bold Heath rather than following the 30 [the new number for the 17] down Mill Lane via the 7 to Tarbock Island, then Knowsley Expressway, Speke Boulevard & Western Avenue to the Airport, the timetable doesn't list the stopping places which is annoying, only lists the route.
Another that's a new one on me is the 168 St Helens-Liverpool South Parkway via Widnes, although looking at the new route map it seems it doesn't serve Green Oaks in Widnes, as it goes via Birchfield Road, Kingsway & Moor Lane which is barmy, with Green Oaks being where passengers want to go to.
The X3 is an interesting route, from Lea Green it goes through Clock Face & Bold Heath rather than following the 30 [the new number for the 17] down Mill Lane via the 7 to Tarbock Island, then Knowsley Expressway, Speke Boulevard & Western Avenue to the Airport, the timetable doesn't list the stopping places which is annoying, only lists the route.
Another that's a new one on me is the 168 St Helens-Liverpool South Parkway via Widnes, although looking at the new route map it seems it doesn't serve Green Oaks in Widnes, as it goes via Birchfield Road, Kingsway & Moor Lane which is barmy, with Green Oaks being where passengers want to go to.
gka472l
Member
As regards ticketing, I would assume (like Bee Network from I think day 1), there will be a 'METRO' equivalent for the buses through an app??? Perhaps like Bee Network, where you can pick bus, bus/tram (or bus/Merseyrail in Merseyside). I do recall using the Bee Network day ticket on buses which hadn't joined Bee Network yet (tranche 3 in south Manchester), so hopefully the same here on Merseyside.
It's just a positioning journey whilst the the (Liverpool area) 167 Garston/Grassingdale Circular remains with St Helens (Haydock) based independent Hattons.
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Presumably this will just be the SOLO for buses, which is already sold onboard and online for smart card activation and eventually the TRIO or a less-restrictive peak time form of the Saveaway.
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Statto
Established Member
That makes sense
I can't see the X3 being a success, the route is quite odd, would have been better going via the 10 through Prescot, then direct down Huyton Lane through Huyton, & picking up Knowsley Expressway at Tarbock Island, than the route it's taking.
Harryn9000
Member
- Joined
- 15 Jan 2010
- Messages
- 91
i expect it will be alot simplier fares. this is what i'm thinking may happen.
singles
my ticket
Solo Day/Weekly/Monthly
i wonder if they will do a family ticket.
It's because the X3 is essentially replacing the 29 and former 122/140 and serving an area of St Helens that hasn't had a frequent bus service for a number of years (between Clock Face and Bold Heath). It's completely isolated from the bus network with the exception of the 2 hourly evening 29 (which only starts after 6pm) and the equally irregular Omega service.
Essentially it's killing two birds with one stone as it's providing a regular bus service to these areas, whilst also unlikely to stop at every single bus stop on route due to low demand, therefore maintaining the "express" feel before the bus becomes non-stop on both Knowsley and Speke expressways
childwallblues
Established Member
80521/22/23/27/34 are new at Gillmoss
11101/05/06 have moved from Gillmoss to Chester
11101/05/06 have moved from Gillmoss to Chester
Statto
Established Member
As i posted on the other forum, it'd be better to extend the 32A as a 32B to Rainhill via Bold Heath, as a replacement for the 29, with the X3 going the direct way via Prescot & Huyton instead.
The 29 is an evening & Sunday service which is every 2 hours, so feels excessive to have an hourly X3, 7 days a week from 03.59 with the last one back at 00.06, along the 29 route.
WHat have 11101/5/6 replaced at chester?
adam rogan
Member
I have just glanced momentarily at the timetable of the 612 and it literally follows the path of the 22A between Newton and Wigan in the evenings minutes apart. I hope this doesn't result in the withdrawal of the 22a due to duplication in the common section forcing you to change onto the 322 but if they are keeping it, i sure had misplaced hopes that with franchising the planners would have a wholistic look at all the buses that serve an area and try their best to space out services. The Bee Network has failed to some respect on this regard again. Let's hope Merseytravel don't do the same.
There's a chance that the 612 will kill off a few routes, the 629 & 630 in Wigan as It duplicates these. The 20 in St.Helens is going as well. As for the 360.... Who knows.
Steve440
Member
JasonL
Member
360 will be run from the Runcorn depot not sure how long for.
The 29 only runs like that due to no merseytravel funding at the time, when most contracted services were either withdrawn or faced a severe frequency cut. The 122/140 which covered St Helens to Bold Heath used to run hourly all day Monday to Saturday was cut and it was a way of serving Bold Heath whilst utilising a bus from the Merseytravel 17 for no additional cost.
If my memory is any good, Bold Heath used to be connected to Warrington (?) and also North Western's 30 to Widnes and Runcorn which also ran down Mill Lane
The X3 running this way ensures that the area is served with a bus connection whilst presenting no additional cost as the X3 would still require 2 buses if it took the more direct route (like the 168) or local alternatives such as via Prescot as it would likely take just over 30 minutes from A to B
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The 22A is directly replaced by the 322 and 612
Statto
Established Member
Yeah Bold Heath used to have buses through to Warrington, it was the old H2 Liverpool-Warrington back in the day, there was a bus from St Helens to Warrington via Bold Heath too, i know there was Shearings (who later became Timeline) service post d-reg, the main issue with Bold Heath it's not great bus territory with Bold Heath being a small village & nothing much in between.
adam rogan
Member
It's a sad loss of a direct Wigan to Warrington Service on evenings and Sundays without switching. For some reason I think the 22a could have been saved if Arriva withdrew their registration of the 360. I will sample 612 and the new St Helens network come September but I don't think that the 612 will be successful. I can imagine getting to Warrington will be as tedious as getting to and from Leigh via Ashton when the 34 doesn't run if you start in St Helens!
childwallblues
Established Member
Posted mon the Merseyside Dennis Dart website that new 82416 has been involved in an RTA whilst working route 10A St Helens-Liverpool.
TheSel
Member
This one, perhaps?
(Link leads to to BBC News website with headline "Woman and two babies hurt in bus and car crash").
Quote from that page:
"A woman in her 40s and two babies were taken to hospital after a crash involving a bus and a car, police have said.
Merseyside Police said the bus and a grey Audi A3 were in collision just before 10:30 BST on Warrington Road, at the junction of Chatsworth Road, in Rainhill, St Helens."
Polarbear
Established Member
Passed Gillmoss depot this morning, noting there’s a lot of new buses in the pen by the bus stops. Assume these won’t start working until 6 September.
JasonL
Member
They're all for St. Helens, they won't be used in Service until the 6th of September. Only a few of these are out for driver familiarisation training.
markymark2000
On Moderation
I think the X3 routing is partly to play politics. Massively boosting the service around Cronton for little reason (in my opinion) and teasing Halton with what they could have if they paid up for franchising. If it wasn't for playing politics, after Bold Heath, the the X3 would run via the M62 rather than Cronton. I'm also at a loss as to the fascination with express buses missing Speke Morrisons. A 2 minute diversion which would mean massively improving bus interchange opportunities, in one of the areas with seemingly the highest bus usage in the whole of Merseyside.
-- Unrelated to above --
The 37 changes I somewhat like. Hourly to Ormskirk is good, but I think the timetable is ruined a bit by the fact that it's the 37A which continues to Southport which is the slightly slower route because of diverting via Barrow Nook. It'd make more sense to make it so the Southport trips run the faster route just on Rainford Road rather than diverting, then have some of the shorter Ormskirk-St Helens routes being the ones which divert via Barrow Nook.
gka472l
Member
I've seen a comment on the Liverpool METRO FB group that Stagecoach are getting 3 extra Ultroliners.....presume that makes 63 for St Helens??? and assume they will be 18991-3??? Can anyone confirm???