Liverpool City Region-Bus Franchising

[JasonL]

Looking at St Helens and what is due vehicle wise, the amount of double deckers due (60 Ultroliners & 17 E400MMC's from Gillmoss) is much higher than what Arriva have there now (36 E400's). Presumably some services operated by single deckers currently will be double deckers.....whereas (in my opinion), the amount for Wirral seems a bit tight (50 Ultroliners to replace 46 Arriva B5LH, plus some Stagecoach decker workings), current route 38 is one that generally is decker worked.....

77 double deckers. Wow! That's more than twice of what St. Helens already has. There will definitely be upgrades on some routes then.

 

[Harryn9000]

Looking at St Helens and what is due vehicle wise, the amount of double deckers due (60 Ultroliners & 17 E400MMC's from Gillmoss) is much higher than what Arriva have there now (36 E400's). Presumably some services operated by single deckers currently will be double deckers.....whereas (in my opinion), the amount for Wirral seems a bit tight (50 Ultroliners to replace 46 Arriva B5LH, plus some Stagecoach decker workings), current route 38 is one that generally is decker worked.....

I suspect PVR will change on certain routes so there will be extra deckers available to accommodate them. As most routes now can operate via singles most of the time

 

[Fokx]

77 double deckers. Wow! That's more than twice of what St. Helens already has. There will definitely be upgrades on some routes then.

Around 35 alone will be utilised on the current Arriva 10/10A (PVR is roughly 23) and Stagecoach 10A (PVR 12).

17 and 32A can't utilise deckers so these can be ruled out alongside the 32 which interworks with the 32A evenings and Sundays.

A further 9 required for the 89, and the remainder likely to be used on the cross-boundary routes (34/320/352) that are unlikely to see the lower capacity enviro 200s, which based on the metro accessibility layout will only have around 34 seats.

 

[gka472l]

Around 35 alone will be utilised on the current Arriva 10/10A (PVR is roughly 23) and Stagecoach 10A (PVR 12).

17 and 32A can't utilise deckers so these can be ruled out alongside the 32 which interworks with the 32A evenings and Sundays.

A further 9 required for the 89, and the remainder likely to be used on the cross-boundary routes (34/320/352) that are unlikely to see the lower capacity enviro 200s, which based on the metro accessibility layout will only have around 34 seats.

Probably the new X83 between St Helens and Liverpool Airport as well???

 

[stuart81]

Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere but what is the reason the Stagecoach E400EV's seem to be used on the 14 Monday / Tuesday and the 19 Wednesday / Thursday / Friday?

 

[Fokx]

Probably the new X83 between St Helens and Liverpool Airport as well???

I'd imagine so but there's still no information on this route or the areas that it is supposed to be serving. (Likewise the Omega services)

 

[Statto]

Yes that's what I was saying to Statto

Stagecoach have to withdraw (or deregister) the 10A that they operate from Gillmoss, as the whole route is moving to St Helens, & Arriva will have no involvement in the route when franchising kicks in.

Arriva will have no involvement in any route out of St Helens once franchising starts

 

[Budge1980]

No Stagecoach are withdrawing there 10A from 6th September, Arriva haven't registered any cancellations yet.

Cancellations:
PC1033334/5 RIBBLE MOTOR SERVICES LTD, GILMOSS DEPOT, EAST LANCASHIRE ROAD, LIVERPOOL, L11 0BB
Operating between Liverpool ONE and St. Helens Bus Station given service number 10A effective from 06 September 2026.

North West Traffic Commissioner Notices & Proceedings 2026

Not sure that is quire right. Arriva put their cancellations on at the end of May. Page 14 and 15 of this:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6a16c8769819be865f421d8f/np_3230_27_May_2026.pdf

 

[Statto]

Looking at St Helens and what is due vehicle wise, the amount of double deckers due (60 Ultroliners & 17 E400MMC's from Gillmoss) is much higher than what Arriva have there now (36 E400's). Presumably some services operated by single deckers currently will be double deckers.....whereas (in my opinion), the amount for Wirral seems a bit tight (50 Ultroliners to replace 46 Arriva B5LH, plus some Stagecoach decker workings), current route 38 is one that generally is decker worked.....

The Wirral 38 gets deckers because of the Schools & 6th form college on the route, but that gets a mixed allocation of deckers & single deckers, but 50 deckers is a bit tight when you add Stagecoach 471/472.

The 414 gets a decker allocated because of the school it passes in Upton, single deckers can't cope with the loadings at chucking out time.

 

[JasonL]

Around 35 alone will be utilised on the current Arriva 10/10A (PVR is roughly 23) and Stagecoach 10A (PVR 12).

17 and 32A can't utilise deckers so these can be ruled out alongside the 32 which interworks with the 32A evenings and Sundays.

A further 9 required for the 89, and the remainder likely to be used on the cross-boundary routes (34/320/352) that are unlikely to see the lower capacity enviro 200s, which based on the metro accessibility layout will only have around 34 seats.

Honestly I can see double deckers being used to upgrade the 34 but the 320 more so since there are 4 schools on the route. Not sure if the 612 will have double deckers on the route despite a double decker Bee Network bus being spotted at Newton Station a couple of weeks back.

 

[M60lad]

I might have missed something but is X83 a completely new route or is it just going to be a peak time service?

What route is X83 due to take?

 

[Polarbear]

I might have missed something but is X83 a completely new route or is it just going to be a peak time service?

What route is X83 due to take?

It’s an “express” service from St Helens to JL Airport. The initial proposals had this as an hourly service, 7 days a week.

No idea about routing I’m afraid-for any of the new services that are being introduced under franchising.

 

[Statto]

The 89 takes anything from 80 to 100 minutes St Helens to JLA, but most people use it to go to/from hubs along the route rather than end to end, i've been on buses that have been well loaded (even around 11.45am) but with less than a handful of passengers getting off (often i'm the only one on) by the time it gets to JLA, i'm not sure there is a need for an express route.

 

[M28361M]

Important to note when looking at Notices and Proceedings, that Liverpool City Region is now responsible for registering services wholly within the franchising area so these services will no longer appear in the Traffic Commissioner updates and will show as cancelled. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6a3c0c5d33bc5beefd3c4955/np_3234_24_June_2026.pdf

The Liverpool City Region Combined Authority (LCRCA) have published their intention to introduce a bus franchising scheme. A Transition Notice has been published and is available here: https://liverpoolcityregion-ca.mode...577/Appendix 3 Draft Transitional Notice.pdf.

Any application to vary or cancel a registration for services wholly within the franchising area are subject to an extended notice period of up to 112 days. New registrations will continue under the usual timeframes.

On commencement of the scheme the Liverpool City Region Combined Authority (LCRCA) will take responsibility for registering services wholly within the franchising area. These services will no longer appear in Notices & Proceedings, and Traffic Commissioner records will be marked as “Admin Cancelled” on GOV.UK.

On another topic, has anything been said about how ticketing will work? Presumably operator-specific tickets will disappear, but is there provision for them to continue to be accepted during the transition? For example, if I bought an Arriva Monthly ticket on 4th September, I'd be a bit miffed if I couldn't use it on the 10A after the 6th.

 

[Djgr]

On another topic, has anything been said about how ticketing will work? Presumably operator-specific tickets will disappear, but is there provision for them to continue to be accepted during the transition? For example, if I bought an Arriva Monthly ticket on 4th September, I'd be a bit miffed if I couldn't use it on the 10A after the 6th.

Probably best not to buy one then! Pragmatically they will probably be accepted until expiry.

 

[Fokx]

The 89 takes anything from 80 to 100 minutes St Helens to JLA, but most people use it to go to/from hubs along the route rather than end to end, i've been on buses that have been well loaded (even around 11.45am) but with less than a handful of passengers getting off (often i'm the only one on) by the time it gets to JLA, i'm not sure there is a need for an express route.

Depends on which way the new service will go, but you can almost guarantee that it won't follow the existing 89 otherwise it would be numbered as X89

My guess based on the route numbering is it will be something akin to the 82A, perhaps a St Helens - Widnes - Airport. taking the more direct route between St Helens and Widnes, running via Chester Lane instead of the Clock face estates, serving Widnes town centre and then fast along the Speke expressway.

I can't see it lasting however...

 

[Polarbear]

On another topic, has anything been said about how ticketing will work? Presumably operator-specific tickets will disappear, but is there provision for them to continue to be accepted during the transition? For example, if I bought an Arriva Monthly ticket on 4th September, I'd be a bit miffed if I couldn't use it on the 10A after the 6th.

Agreed-one reason for my ask about any possible app? Arriva certainly promote their longer term seasons & a fair few people use them (makes sense if you only use the bus & it’s the one operator).

As said elsewhere, I would expect at least a period of grace from the start of franchising. Also, given that the rest of Merseyside won’t move to the new set up until mid to late 2027, I wouldn’t expect to see any significant changes to validity of operator specific tickets until the full network is operational.

 

[Djgr]

Agreed-one reason for my ask about any possible app? Arriva certainly promote their longer term seasons & a fair few people use them (makes sense if you only use the bus & it’s the one operator).

As said elsewhere, I would expect at least a period of grace from the start of franchising. Also, given that the rest of Merseyside won’t move to the new set up until mid to late 2027, I wouldn’t expect to see any significant changes to validity of operator specific tickets until the full network is operational.

Presumably we have some data from what happened in Manchester?

 

[Polarbear]

Presumably we have some data from what happened in Manchester?

Based on my anecdotal experience around Manchester, the Bee Network app (and associated ticketing) was set up early in the franchise rollout. I recall having a few “what the heck is that” moments from a few drivers in areas not yet moved to franchised operations, but was never refused.

Dates for when sales of operator specific tickets were posted on buses, with some limited leeway on validity, but I can’t recall specifics.

 

[Pinus contorta]

Honestly I can see double deckers being used to upgrade the 34 but the 320 more so since there are 4 schools on the route. Not sure if the 612 will have double deckers on the route despite a double decker Bee Network bus being spotted at Newton Station a couple of weeks back.

Yea i am inclined to agree with you about the 320 given the high density of school traffic along the route. Which way is the 612 travelling around newton le willows has this been publicised? Or have I missed this up thread?

 

[JasonL]

Yea i am inclined to agree with you about the 320 given the high density of school traffic along the route. Which way is the 612 travelling around newton le willows has this been publicised? Or have I missed this up thread?

The map for the 612 has not been revealed yet but I would imagine it goes the same way the 360 and 22A does up to Newton Interchange and then almost follows the same way the 34 does from Newton Interchange only missing out Queens Drive and Belvedere Road.

 

[MCRTransitYT]

I’ve been told that also. As well as 20 of hybrid deckers due to be converted to Training fleet with no hybrid system. first 2 due to leave fleet soon to be replaced by pulsars from st Helen’s

Do you know which Hybrids these will be?

 

[gka472l]

Another video from the storage yard in Widnes where new buses are being stored.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2026 ==

Another video from the storage yard in Widnes where new buses are being stored.

4355 is the last numbered of those so assume all 55 are there. Also of note is one Stagecoach Ultroliner for St Helens (18972), the rest being Birkenhead ones (37** numbers), and a small number of old Stagecoach vehicles awaiting transfer/sale (the 2 E300's are 27890 & 27903).

 

[CN12 AWU]

Another video from the storage yard in Widnes where new buses are being stored.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2026 ==



4355 is the last numbered of those so assume all 55 are there. Also of note is one Stagecoach Ultroliner for St Helens (18972), the rest being Birkenhead ones (37** numbers), and a small number of old Stagecoach vehicles awaiting transfer/sale (the 2 E300's are 27890 & 27903).

Im suprised 27890 and 27903 havent moved to Chester or elsewhere

 

[JasonL]

Another video from the storage yard in Widnes where new buses are being stored.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2026 ==



4355 is the last numbered of those so assume all 55 are there. Also of note is one Stagecoach Ultroliner for St Helens (18972), the rest being Birkenhead ones (37** numbers), and a small number of old Stagecoach vehicles awaiting transfer/sale (the 2 E300's are 27890 & 27903).

I wonder why 18972 is there? There's still plenty of room at the P&R in Gillmoss

 

[gka472l]

Im suprised 27890 and 27903 havent moved to Chester or elsewhere

Still listed on 'bustimes' as Merseyside vehicles, however a quite a number have very recently gone to Cumbria, including some that were stored at this location.

 

[Harryn9000]

The Wirral 38 gets deckers because of the Schools & 6th form college on the route, but that gets a mixed allocation of deckers & single deckers, but 50 deckers is a bit tight when you add Stagecoach 471/472.

The 414 gets a decker allocated because of the school it passes in Upton, single deckers can't cope with the loadings at chucking out time.

i suspect the pvr is going to be changed on certain routes. i suspect that will be first one. which would make sense with changes to 407 route which interworks with 471/472 currently for arriva.

 

[Northerngirl]

On tickets, I wonder if they will do something more about acceptance outside of the region. Its always a huge pain on the 34 at leigh that myticket/saveaway aren't valid (and seem to confuse the readers)

 

[neilcobbe]

Full details and new timetables have been published by Merseytravel for the St.Helens franchise area. https://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/bus/bus-changes/

 

[Polarbear]

Thanks for posting @neilcobbe

A quick scan suggests some differences in route numbers compared to the previously published information. Also, I note that whilst operator specific tickets will continue to be accepted in the short term, that is only to early October (even for annual passes).

I’d be a tad annoyed if I’d renewed my annual Arriva or Stagecoach pass during the first 7 months of this year!