TfW prioritising Welsh services over lines in England?

craigybagel · 27 Jun 2026

Krokodil said:
Funny you mention that because we could always tell when a 68 was in Liverpool Lime Street, the whole station was reverberating.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jun 2026 ==

I believe at Piccadilly a comparison was made with a 68, with both locos having their ETH switched on. The 68 was louder.....

Krokodil said:
When they first entered service didn't they have to be kept a certain way around for fueling? Not sure if it was Crewe or Holyhead that was the issue.

I believe it was Canton.

In MKIII days the diagrams also took into account keeping both Crewe and Cardiff drivers competent at driving at high speed at both ends. Crewe drivers only drove the 67 on the morning Crewe - Chester leg of the North Wales & Manchester diagrams. Meanwhile, a Cardiff driver travelled to Newport to meet the morning Holyhead - Cardiff service so they could drive from the DVT at speed. All other Crewe work on the mainline was DVT leading, and for Cardiff 67.

Since the MKIVs came in, there's enough work for both depots to stay consistent competent regardless of which way round they run.

This is all probably getting off topic however - other than to say on hot days it's much more preferable to drive from the DVT, but it's impossible to plan around the train being in that formation. Maybe we need to do it APT style and put a DVT at each end with a loco in the middle :lol:

Envoy said:
Many thanks for your detailed answer.

You're welcome

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Envoy · 28 Jun 2026

Sunday 28 June 2026 and not looking good for those travelling on The Marches according to RTT. The 13.30 & 15.22 departures from Cardiff to Chester are down as 2 car 150’s. The 13.27 Milford to Manchester is down as a 2 car 153 - unless they do a swap en-route? The 12.21 from Swansea to Manchester is down as a 2 car 197.

I really do wonder what on earth is going on with TFW that despite having the full fleet of 197’s and not yet having them on the Cambrian, they still cannot provide new trains of the correct length on the south-Wales > Marches route?

Harpo · 28 Jun 2026

Envoy said:
Sunday 28 June 2026 and not looking good for those travelling on The Marches according to RTT. The 13.30 & 15.22 departures from Cardiff to Chester are down as 2 car 150’s. The 13.27 Milford to Manchester is down as a 2 car 153 - unless they do a swap en-route? The 12.21 from Swansea to Manchester is down as a 2 car 197.

I really do wonder what on earth is going on with TFW that despite having the full fleet of 197’s and not yet having them on the Cambrian, they still cannot provide new trains of the correct length on the south-Wales > Marches route?

No heat wave for TfW to hide behind today.

Jez · 28 Jun 2026

Envoy said:
Sunday 28 June 2026 and not looking good for those travelling on The Marches according to RTT. The 13.30 & 15.22 departures from Cardiff to Chester are down as 2 car 150’s. The 13.27 Milford to Manchester is down as a 2 car 153 - unless they do a swap en-route? The 12.21 from Swansea to Manchester is down as a 2 car 197.

I really do wonder what on earth is going on with TFW that despite having the full fleet of 197’s and not yet having them on the Cambrian, they still cannot provide new trains of the correct length on the south-Wales > Marches route?

I noticed a 2 car 153 going to Milford this morning. I bet it gets swapped somewhere (Cardiff most likely) and doesnt make it to Manchester.

Although technically one could still make it Manchester on paper as Crewe train crews still sign them I believe. Id be very surprised however to see it go to Manchester.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jun 2026 ==

A quick look at RTT and about 21 x 2 car 17 x 3 car in service today (38 in total) which seems very low. A few were ECS as well which i included as they might go into service later.

So no surprise that Sprinters are covering some today.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jun 2026 ==

The 1330 Cardiff to Chester/Holyhead is now showing as a 3 car 197. But the 1522 is showing as a 150 all the way to Holyhead. Obviously that wont happen. But as long as its Cardiff or Crewe train crew not Chester train crew there is no reason why it couldnt go into Chester in service even if Chester dont sign 150s anymore.

craigybagel · 28 Jun 2026

Jez said:
But the 1522 is showing as a 150 all the way to Holyhead. Obviously that wont happen. But as long as its Cardiff or Crewe train crew not Chester train crew there is no reason why it couldnt go into Chester in service even if Chester dont sign 150s anymore.

Booked traincrew wise, North of Shrewsbury is an issue for this particular service. But it almost certainly won't get that far.

Jez · 28 Jun 2026

craigybagel said:
Booked traincrew wise, North of Shrewsbury is an issue for this particular service. But it almost certainly won't get that far.

No and id be surprised if the 1327 Milford to Manchester and 2030 Manchester to Cardiff actually run with the pair of 153s that RTT is still showing!

craigybagel · 28 Jun 2026

Jez said:
But the 1522 is showing as a 150 all the way to Holyhead. Obviously that wont happen. But as long as its Cardiff or Crewe train crew not Chester train crew there is no reason why it couldnt go into Chester in service even if Chester dont sign 150s anymore.

As expected, a set swap at Cardiff with a 3 car 197 arriving from Holyhead turned around immediately to go back north again.

Jez said:
No and id be surprised if the 1327 Milford to Manchester and 2030 Manchester to Cardiff actually run with the pair of 153s that RTT is still showing!

Likewise, 2 197s arriving from Manchester were sent back north again

Jez · 28 Jun 2026

craigybagel said:
As expected, a set swap at Cardiff with a 3 car 197 arriving from Holyhead turned around immediately to go back north again.

Likewise, 2 197s arriving from Manchester were sent back north again

Indeed no surprises there!

Looking at RTT it seems any Sprinters covering for 197s were kept to Maesteg, Ebbw Vale and West Wales.

AndrewE · 29 Jun 2026

I was lucky today in that most of my travelling on the N Wales coast was on Avanti trains, but the 1 short hop on a 197 and all the others I saw (while waiting for my Everos) were full-to-bursting, as was a 4-car 158 running N Wales to ~~Cardiff~~ - Birmingham int - which had a few window top-vents open I'm glad I avoided most of them.

What struck me most was the number of 197 units in the sidings at Chester, which seemed almost full, and in the depot with all the roads occupied. They must have a terrible availability rating.

craigybagel · 29 Jun 2026

AndrewE said:
What struck me most was the number of 197 units in the sidings at Chester, which seemed almost full, and in the depot with all the roads occupied. They must have a terrible availability rating.

It probably doesn't help that the staff at Chester CAF are on strike today

Jez · 29 Jun 2026

The strike certainly made 197 availability even worse than it usually is.

Not a great day today, the 1100 from Milford Haven was 150 as far as Swansea, then a 2 car 197 to Cardiff before 5 car to Manchester. The 1257 Fishguard was a 2 car 197 all the way to Manchester. The 1506 Milford Haven was also 2 car as far as Cardiff.

I travelled Neath to Swansea on 1130 Manchester to Milford service (about 1550 from Neath as was late). I was expecting a 4 car but a 3 car turned up. Even the platform were surprised as the screen still said 4 cars. Someone on board was complaining quite a lot about the train being slow and late. His main gripe seemed to be staff not keeping passengers informed. It was following a slower train (Swanline) which is clearly why it kept slowing down, I never understand why they dont hold the Swanline at Cardiff as it could also be a connection from the Manchester service for people wanting Swanline stop. Given it was held at Swansea before going West anyway, Passengers were then told the Milford would be direct to Carmarthen and to change at Swansea. The announcement was so quiet many people didnt hear, i ended up telling someone for Llanelli to get off the train and change.

So I dont think TFW are prioritising Welsh services, if anything most of the short forms seem to happen in Wales (Swansea to Cardiff being one of the main ones that gets short formed with most of the 5 cars going Cardiff to Manchester.)

SaltAndVinegar · 12 Jul 2026

Jez said:
I never understand why they dont hold the Swanline at Cardiff as it could also be a connection from the Manchester service for people wanting Swanline stop.

The Swanline is often a only-just-valid connection at Cardiff for the incoming Manchesters but I could count on one hand the number of times I’ve actually been able to make it vs a long and annoying wait or having to seek alternative transport. Very occasionally it gets held if you ask nicely and the delay isn’t too great.

Jez · 12 Jul 2026

SaltAndVinegar said:
The Swanline is often a only-just-valid connection at Cardiff for the incoming Manchesters but I could count on one hand the number of times I’ve actually been able to make it vs a long and annoying wait or having to seek alternative transport. Very occasionally it gets held if you ask nicely and the delay isn’t too great.

I asked the Conductor politely on Wednesday if he could find out if they would hold the Swanline, as the arrival time of the 1630 ex Manchester kept changing and it looked like it could be tight. It is only just a valid connection of 7 minutes in the first place. He said we should make up time and its on the next platform (a simple swap from Platform 3 to 4). He said he appreciated the Swanline wasnt that frequent compared to some of the more local connections at Cardiff. He came back to me and said he had asked and they said they should be able to hold it but we would likely make the time up. He said it couldnt be guaranteed.

In the end it wasnt needed as the Swanline was also late departing and hadnt even arrived from its previous journey Ebbw Vale-Newport-Cardiff.

Even if very few people connect to Swanline stations there is often a very big gap for Port Talbot, Neath and Swansea (and further West) - the next booked service after tight Swanline connection was 2040 GWR to Swansea, a wait of nearly 1 hour. Of course when the 1630 used to go through to Swansea it wasnt an issue.

I noticed on Friday when I was at Swansea they held the GWR for around 15 minutes so passengers from Pembroke Dock service could transfer. I suppose Swansea is an easier place to hold trains, Cardiff is totally unsuitable due to the volume of trains that pass through and terminate there. But holding for 1 or 2 minutes should be possible when the wait is an hour.

I know a few times the Swanline connection has actually needed to happen in Bridgend to make it work. The 1530 ex Manchester for example the gap is less than 7 minutes so even if you technically could get it in Cardiff the timetable tells you to change at Bridgend. Which is fine as long as the Swanline doesnt leave before the fast train (or if it does leave its looped somewhere before Bridgend!)

SaltAndVinegar · 12 Jul 2026

Jez said:
I asked the Conductor politely on Wednesday if he could find out if they would hold the Swanline, as the arrival time of the 1630 ex Manchester kept changing and it looked like it could be tight. It is only just a valid connection of 7 minutes in the first place. He said we should make up time and its on the next platform (a simple swap from Platform 3 to 4). He said he appreciated the Swanline wasnt that frequent compared to some of the more local connections at Cardiff. He came back to me and said he had asked and they said they should be able to hold it but we would likely make the time up. He said it couldnt be guaranteed.

In the end it wasnt needed as the Swanline was also late departing and hadnt even arrived from its previous journey Ebbw Vale-Newport-Cardiff.

Even if very few people connect to Swanline stations there is often a very big gap for Port Talbot, Neath and Swansea (and further West) - the next booked service after tight Swanline connection was 2040 GWR to Swansea, a wait of nearly 1 hour. Of course when the 1630 used to go through to Swansea it wasnt an issue.

I noticed on Friday when I was at Swansea they held the GWR for around 15 minutes so passengers from Pembroke Dock service could transfer. I suppose Swansea is an easier place to hold trains, Cardiff is totally unsuitable due to the volume of trains that pass through and terminate there. But holding for 1 or 2 minutes should be possible when the wait is an hour.

I know a few times the Swanline connection has actually needed to happen in Bridgend to make it work. The 1530 ex Manchester for example the gap is less than 7 minutes so even if you technically could get it in Cardiff the timetable tells you to change at Bridgend. Which is fine as long as the Swanline doesnt leave before the fast train (or if it does leave its looped somewhere before Bridgend!)

Yep it can be ridiculous wait for stations past Bridgend, especially when travelling on a TfW-only ticket.

I believe as per the PRO, TfW should be making arrangements for passengers likely to be delayed >60 mins.

ALEMASTER · 12 Jul 2026

I suppose this is similar to EMR cancelling all services between Sheffield and Liverpool during the hot weather the last few days, with Transpennine Express and Northern still running and becoming overcrowded as a result of having to carry EMR's passengers as well as their own! It'll just be a standard way they have to save on rolling stock rather than not caring about places outside the East Midlands!

Watershed · 12 Jul 2026

SaltAndVinegar said:
Yep it can be ridiculous wait for stations past Bridgend, especially when travelling on a TfW-only ticket.

I believe as per the PRO, TfW should be making arrangements for passengers likely to be delayed >60 mins.

The PRO doesn't oblige them to hold trains but it does oblige them to arrange ticket acceptance if the anticipated arrival delay exceeds an hour and there's a faster alternative, yes.

Harpo · 14 Jul 2026

TfWs operating decisions today (Tues 14/7) seem to spread the misery in a balanced way:
- Chester to Wrexham shuttles cape
- Ebbw Vale to Newport morning cancellations
- Cambrian Machynlleth to Wolves & Pwllheli only. Aberystwyth to Machynlleth bus.

All cite ‘more trains than usual needing maintenance’ but interestingly the Cambrian changes say:

We expect to have a reduced number of trains available on Tuesday 14th July whilst our depot teams continue to work to ensure our on board air conditioning is fully functional.

The concept of ‘fully functional’ air conditioning on a 158 is a novel one.

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TfW prioritising Welsh services over lines in England?

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