TfW prioritising Welsh services over lines in England?

[pepstar]

I’m trying not to do a click bait headline but it’s difficult! I am growing more and more frustrated with TfW cutting services to towns and cities in the English boarders citing the heatwave as an excuse, when other operators are running services over the same lines.

This is a screenshot from this afternoon at Shrewsbury and it feels services to Manchester and Birmingham are being cancelled while services to Welsh towns and cities are running. It feels to me they’re masking rolling stock issues and using the heatwave as an excuse, so they can move rolling stock around the network.

From my observations this is becoming a more common occurrence and it’s frustrating they appear to be allowed to do this.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In all seriousness I'd bail off an overheating 158 onto a nice cool 196 at Shrewsbury even if it was running through! Similarly on the North Wales Coast to Manchester.

I think this is a sensible pruning as there are alternatives. Though if it's leaving any stations on the Marches with nothing at all then that bit isn't very good.

 

[Djgr]

Is this a repeat of the Wales neglecting England guff that was on the forum a few months ago?

 

[pepstar]

In all seriousness I'd bail off an overheating 158 onto a nice cool 196 at Shrewsbury even if it was running through! Similarly on the North Wales Coast to Manchester.

I think this is a sensible pruning as there are alternatives. Though if it's leaving any stations on the Marches with nothing at all then that bit isn't very good.

Yeah I totally agree in regard to the AC, but it’s reducing capacity on a line on the line, it appears this is becoming a growing trend that whenever they need rolling stock, they take services from the borders.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jun 2026 ==

Is this a repeat of the Wales neglecting England guff that was on the forum a few months ago?

It’s not guff, it’s what’s actually happening, all you need to do it’s look at RTT.

 

[Farigiraf]

It’s not guff, it’s what’s actually happening, all you need to do it’s look at RTT.

Do you have any proof to suggest that TFW are doing this specifically because the affected lines go through England, and not due to other, more practical reasons?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do you have any proof to suggest that TFW are doing this specifically because the affected lines go through England, and not due to other, more practical reasons?

Such as the fact that there are two four car trains per hour operated by WMT on Shrewsbury-Birmingham, and outside the peaks (and the last train in the evening) these tend to be quite quiet?

 

[pepstar]

Do you have any proof to suggest that TFW are doing this specifically because the affected lines go through England, and not due to other, more practical reasons?

I don’t know why you feel the need to defend TfW, they have on multiple occasions cancelled services to Birmingham International while still running trains elsewhere on their network.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I don’t know why you feel the need to defend TfW, they have on multiple occasions cancelled services to Birmingham International while still running trains elsewhere on their network.

As @Bletchleyite has said above, the West Midlands services into Birmingham usually have enough space, it's better for them to focus on the less frequent links through Wales.
Costing a few people 20 minutes to get to Birmingham is a different affair to delaying people on the Cambrian Coast 2 hours (or forcing a rail replacement bus)

 

[pepstar]

Such as the fact that there are two four car trains per hour operated by WMT on Shrewsbury-Birmingham, and outside the peaks (and the last train in the evening) these tend to be quite quiet?

Sometimes yes, but there are certain late services which TfW run on the line and stop at every station with agreement WMT I believe, cancelling these services for days on end means the late services from Birmingham are just not available, which isn’t great if you’re at the theatre in brum or trying to get from Birmingham international

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Given most of the 197s on the TfW network are based at Chester, they will tend to head there overnight and out from there next day.
They also form the Manchester and Liverpool services (Manchesters sometimes worked via Crewe), so I would be surprised if these services (which include some Marches services) were not running.
Cambrian-Shrewsbury-Birmingham is a bit different with the ETCS 158s and their poor aircon performance in the heat, leading to more cancellations/short turns.
Mk4s are pot luck at the best of times.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sometimes yes, but there are certain late services which TfW run on the line and stop at every station with agreement WMT I believe, cancelling these services for days on end means the late services from Birmingham are just not available, which isn’t great if you’re at the theatre in brum or trying to get from Birmingham international

It does mean losing the 2341, but 2258 is stilll reasonably late for a weeknight.

 

[Envoy]

Most Cardiff to Cheltenham services are old 2 coach 150’s or 153’s today. This is at a time when an English based company (Cross Country) have completely abandoned the Cardiff > Gloucester > Cheltenham (and beyond) route.

TFW have got buses replacing trains between Maesteg & Bridgend which is normally a through service to Cardiff & Ebbw Vale. Ebbw Vale today only has 2 coach 150’s and these are only going to Newport - with the Cardiff service abandoned.

With the exceptionally hot weather, I guess most people are choosing not to travel. I do wonder why they are using sprinters with opening windows instead of air conditioned 197’s? Surely, Spanish trains are built for the heat?

Of course, the Class 158 Express sprinters that operate through Shrewsbury are known to have failed air conditioning systems & only 4 small windows per car can open presenting a danger to passengers in hot weather. These should have long gone in favour of 197’s which have all now been delivered. (It is the introduction of Class 398 tram-trains in SE Wales that has caused the delay in getting rid of 158’s).

 

[The exile]

It does mean losing the 2341, but 2258 is stilll reasonably late for a weeknight.

Though the last advertised train should run at almost all costs (I would take “advertised” as meaning “shown as running at the point tickets went on sale for the date concerned”.)

 

[tfw756rider]

This is a screenshot from this afternoon at Shrewsbury

What app is this?

 

[pepstar]

It does mean losing the 2341, but 2258 is stilll reasonably late for a weeknight.

Not if you’re going to the theatre or concert in Birmingham , you plan tickets months in advance only for TfW to cancel the service with the heatwave as an excuse, while running trains elsewhere on their network.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Most Cardiff to Cheltenham services are old 2 coach 150’s or 153’s today. This is at a time when an English based company (Cross Country) have completely abandoned the Cardiff > Gloucester > Cheltenham (and beyond) route.

TFW have got buses replacing trains between Maesteg & Bridgend which is normally a through service to Cardiff & Ebbw Vale. Ebbw Vale today only has 2 coach 150’s and these are only going to Newport - with the Cardiff service abandoned.

With the exceptionally hot weather, I guess most people are choosing not to travel. I do wonder why they are using sprinters with opening windows instead of air conditioned 197’s? Surely, Spanish trains are built for the heat?

Of course, the Class 158 Express sprinters that operate through Shrewsbury are known to have failed air conditioning systems & only 4 small windows per car can open presenting a danger to passengers in hot weather. These should have long gone in favour of 197’s which have all now been delivered. (It is the introduction of Class 398 tram-trains in SE Wales that has caused the delay in getting rid of 158’s).

Yes the fact that the Cambrian is still 100% 158s after the 197s initial introduction in 2022 is farsical.

 

[Farigiraf]

I don’t know why you feel the need to defend TfW, they have on multiple occasions cancelled services to Birmingham International while still running trains elsewhere on their network.

I know that any inconvenience on the English side of the Wales & Borders network is easy to attribute to some sort of (mostly one-sided) ideological battle, but in practice there are dozens of logistical reasons why these things happen, and immediately jumping to 'TFW screwing over Shropshire again' is rather counterproductive.

For example, the Cheltenham line is being screwed over just as much as the Ebbw Vale line at the moment, even if the Welsh Government is more politically accountable for one than the other. In Shropshire, I couldn't tell you the exact reason why the 11pm TFW out of Birmingham keeps being cancelled, but if there is a rolling stock issue at the moment then cancelling this train seems sensible, as chances are you'll be one of maybe 2-3 total passengers on that service.

 

[tfw756rider]

Yes the fact that the Cambrian is still 100% 158s after the 197s initial introduction in 2022 is farsical.

Less than 3 months until the first 197 enters service on the Cambrian.

 

[DS25]

Theres no trains running between Machynlleth and Shrewsbury which has probably led to the cancellations of the Birminghams, which still have 2tph running

 

[pepstar]

I know that any inconvenience on the English side of the Wales & Borders network is easy to attribute to some sort of (mostly one-sided) ideological battle, but in practice there are dozens of logistical reasons why these things happen, and immediately jumping to 'TFW screwing over Shropshire again' is rather counterproductive.

For example, the Cheltenham line is being screwed over just as much as the Ebbw Vale line at the moment, even if the Welsh Government is more politically accountable for one than the other. In Shropshire, I couldn't tell you the exact reason why the 11pm TFW out of Birmingham keeps being cancelled, but if there is a rolling stock issue at the moment then cancelling this train seems sensible, as chances are you'll be one of maybe 2-3 total passengers on that service.

This is my point, there is a rolling stock issue, but TfW are attributing this to severe weather, even though this train is scheduled to run after 11pm at night when temperatures are cooler. On top of all the other services which are cancelled.

I also don’t think it’s counterproductive to state that TfW are providing a second class service on that line compared to others, simply because that’s what’s happening.

Finally, I can appreciate you may have never used that service, but I can tell you that last train is used well, especially on a weekend, so to guess that it would have 2-3 people using it simply isn’t true.

They’ve also cancelled all trains tomorrow as well when the temperature is cooling according the current train data, it’s a joke!

 

[craigybagel]

The Manchester services that are cancelled are those booked to run with MKIVs - they've been pulled from service both on TfW and on the much more English focused LNER because their AC is struggling to cope (especially in the 67 cabs where the only AC is an open window.

Birmingham services are cancelled because A: they're nearly all booked for 158s which are infamous for their AC (from a similar era to the MKIVs) also not being able to cope - and because there is at least still an alternative service provided by WMR.

None of this is ideal - but is in no way an attempt to prioritise Welsh services over England. Merely making the best of a bad situation - as all TOCs are trying to do at present.

 

[Coleridge]

They’ve also cancelled all trains tomorrow as well when the temperature is cooling according the current train data, it’s a joke!

It is, indeed, a joke.

But please don't feel that you're being singled out because you're in England. TfW is also barely capable of running a reliable service in Wales this week, either.

 

[pepstar]

Services are again cancelled today to Birmingham citing “Severe Weather” it’s currently 18oC outside, TfW should not be simply allowed to get away with this.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Less than 3 months until the first 197 enters service on the Cambrian.

Right, so proving my point. Four years after the class was introduced into service.

 

[Harpo]

Services are again cancelled today to Birmingham citing “Severe Weather” it’s currently 18oC outside, TfW should not be simply allowed to get away with this.

What is completely unacceptable is the disingenuous BS from TfW:

Trains are unable to run between Shrewsbury and Birmingham International in either direction.

It then directs passengers to the trains that do seem to be able to run between Shrewsbury and New Street!

Link to National Rail Disruption where TfW’s statement appears:

Incident: TfW Hot Weather | National Rail

Hot weather is forecast: advice if you are travelling with Transport for Wales. Find details of all current incidents on National Rail Enquiries.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

 

[Jez]

Right, so proving my point. Four years after the class was introduced into service.

Tfw always said the Cambrian would be the last place to get 197s. It was never going to happen quickly with such a massive fleet to introduce

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jun 2026 ==

None of this is ideal - but is in no way an attempt to prioritise Welsh services over England. Merely making the best of a bad situation - as all TOCs are trying to do at present.

100% agree. TFW also have a duty of care to their staff as well as passengers.

People could say the same about Crosscountry not running services to South Wales (Newport/Cardiff etc) but TFW have their own service to Cheltenham. It is pointless running two trains an hour when people have been told only travel when essential.

Personally i dont think TFW have done anything wrong here.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jun 2026 ==

TfW is also barely capable of running a reliable service in Wales this week, either.

Why run a full timetable when people were told Wed/Thurs/Friday not to travel unless essential? If people choose to ignore the advice given and travel for non essential journeys in a heatwave then that is their decision and you cannot blame TFW.

 

[Envoy]

The Manchester services that are cancelled are those booked to run with MKIVs - they've been pulled from service both on TfW and on the much more English focused LNER because their AC is struggling to cope (especially in the 67 cabs where the only AC is an open window.

I note that the 67’s are nearly always at the southern end of the Manchester to Cardiff trains. I presume that this is because they don’t want the fumes in Manchester station? Being as the cabs have no air con, would it not be better to have the 67’s at the northern end of these trains which will be cooler for the drivers? (Heading south facing the sun is obviously hotter with the rays entering the cab).

 

[craigybagel]

I note that the 67’s are nearly always at the southern end of the Manchester to Cardiff trains. I presume that this is because they don’t want the fumes in Manchester station? Being as the cabs have no air con, would it not be better to have the 67’s at the northern end of these trains which will be cooler for the drivers? (Heading south facing the sun is obviously hotter with the rays entering the cab).

They're not planned that way, what you've seen is just a coincidence. If anything, the original idea was they were meant to be kept the other way around with the loco at the North end as it makes things logistically simpler at Canton, and tests were carried out at Piccadilly to check noise levels before the 67s entered service on that route. I'm actually typing this whilst traveling on a rake with the loco at the North end.

In practice it's impossible to keep them all the same way around, owing to the frequency of engineering work affecting which way they run between Manchester and Crewe, Crewe and Shrewsbury, and Cwmbran and Newport. A set swap overnight at Crewe can also get them out of sync.

To be honest, when it's 30+ degrees outside and you're sitting a few metres away from a 3200hp engine, I'm not sure the direction the cab is facing is likely to make much difference anyway.

 

[Krokodil]

It’s not guff, it’s what’s actually happening, all you need to do it’s look at RTT.

Looking on RTT the Conwy Valley Line was abandoned too. Unit poached to cover for 158s. Ditto the Wrexham shuttle.

I do wonder why they are using sprinters with opening windows instead of air conditioned 197’s? Surely, Spanish trains are built for the heat?

You'd think so, wouldn't you? Hasn't worked out like that in practice. 197 aircon is good when it works, but faults are common.

What is completely unacceptable is the disingenuous BS from TfW:

Similar BS on the Conwy Valley. Apparently the line is blocked. It isn't - and a 153 on a measuring run even went up on Thursday as booked. They should just be honest and admit that they've cancelled both the Conwy Valley and the Wrexham shuttle to free up units to cover for 158s - because that was the reason circulated internally.

and tests were carried out at Piccadilly to check noise levels before the 67s entered service on that route

Funny you mention that because we could always tell when a 68 was in Liverpool Lime Street, the whole station was reverberating.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jun 2026 ==

If anything, the original idea was they were meant to be kept the other way around with the loco at the North end as it makes things logistically simpler at Canton

When they first entered service didn't they have to be kept a certain way around for fueling? Not sure if it was Crewe or Holyhead that was the issue.

 

[Envoy]

They're not planned that way, what you've seen is just a coincidence. If anything, the original idea was they were meant to be kept the other way around with the loco at the North end as it makes things logistically simpler at Canton, and tests were carried out at Piccadilly to check noise levels before the 67s entered service on that route. I'm actually typing this whilst traveling on a rake with the loco at the North end.

In practice it's impossible to keep them all the same way around, owing to the frequency of engineering work affecting which way they run between Manchester and Crewe, Crewe and Shrewsbury, and Cwmbran and Newport. A set swap overnight at Crewe can also get them out of sync.

To be honest, when it's 30+ degrees outside and you're sitting a few metres away from a 3200hp engine, I'm not sure the direction the cab is facing is likely to make much difference anyway.

Many thanks for your detailed answer.