I've not seen any pictures of the 810 showing crushed vestibules?
Can you provide some on here?
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Will the 810 involved in the Bedford crash be repaired or partly replaced?
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Can you provide some on here?
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sprinterguy
Veteran Member
None of the photos I've seen/searched for seem to show any crushing of the vestibules of the 810 unit. Even where the front corner of the derailed third coach has impacted the trailing end of the second coach ahead of it, it still appears to be fully square in the images available.
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Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
The key is probably any hidden damage to the structure of each carriage; with integral construction it is quite possible for the visible bits to look perfectly all right, but what might have happened to the underneath structural bits that are directly in line with the impact, such as the mountings for the anti-climb devices?
If these are twisted in any way, replacement is likely to be the cheaper option than repair.
If these are twisted in any way, replacement is likely to be the cheaper option than repair.
Nogoohwell
Member
there is a video on the BBC website. It shows the connections between the rear three coaches in the 810, all compacted and judging by the sun reflection, the body is warped.
Sorry can’t link it from here, but try searching for it on the bbc, publication date 20th June
sprinterguy
Veteran Member
The corridor connections between carriages 3, 4 and 5 have certainly been compressed so that the vehicle ends appear to be touching. The vestibules look to be intact though.
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RUK
Member
Presumably 810 015 is insured - would the payout from it be enough to cover enough of the cost to Rock Rail/EMR to finance the cost of a replacement unit? I suppose a new contract with Hitachi would have to be drawn up for a new unit, though.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
I wonder if trains are insured?
If you have a large enough fleet it is probably cheaper to cover the risk yourself. Obviously TOCs could well have liability insurance. A road equivalent would be a fleet operator just having third party only insurance. Your not going to lose a significant proportion of the fleet in one go and if you have insurance against that then the insurance company is taking a big risk and might charge a larger premium for that if it is a realistic risk.
I also wonder if an order for just one class 810 would be expensive, much more expensive than 1/33 of the original order cost.
When BA had their oopsie between a building in South Africa and a 747 wing, it came out that they self-insured the aircraft they owned outright but had full insurance for those that were leased.
It wouldn't surprise me if it was a condition of the lease for both aircraft and trains that they have insurance, not least to guarantee the leasing company their income for the expected life of the asset.
It was four new vehicles. Two vehicles from 321420 switched to 321418 and returned to service. A new 321420 was built. Interestingly, the vehicles took the numbers of the four scrapped ones. Both units rans misformed for the rest of their careers and six vehicles survive in 320418 and 320420.
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norbitonflyer
Established Member
In reacll that there was comment at the time of the 1985 Battersea Park rear end collision that the two mark 1 vehicles that actually took the force of the colliion (an East Sussex DEMU power car and a Gatwick Express GLV) looked rather less damaged than the Mark 2 vehicle immediately behind the GLV. There may have been damage to the underframes though - certainly the DEMU power car was condemned later that year, as were the first two Mark 2s of the Gatwick train - but not, it would seem, the GLV.
. I seem to recall reading that the engine mountings of the Class 73 that was propelling the second train were also damaged, so the shock of the impact passed right through the train
CR165022
Established Member
I doubt EMR would want just one unit that is completely different from the others
The only existing production run is the current build of 810 units for EMR.
The last 2 units are in the final production stage .
Better than no train if the 810 line can’t be restarted for some while. They managed with a (some?) 180 for a while.
norbitonflyer
Established Member
Looking at the report on this, there seem to be some parallels.
Rear end collision, after the first train stopped so a signalling fault could be investigated
Second train running on a succession of yellows, driver missed a red.
Differences
The driver survived, and could report what had happened. He was quite candid that he had simply missed the signal.
He had been passing a number of signals that went from red to yellow as he approached, but missed that the last one had not done so.
On the left hand curve, and on the left hand track, he had read through to the next signal, cleared for the preceding train, but that train itself had been obscured by the girders of a bridge
The first train was moving off under the just-cleared signal, so the closing speed was lower and the brakes were not on, making the impact less severe
The reported fault was with a track circuit. the DEMU had been diverted from fast to slow so the fault (on the up fast) could be investigated. It had been held at the signal to wait for a down train to pass.
Merle Haggard
Established Member
Some of the coaches involved in the Bushey high speed derailment (23/10/10) were stored for a while in the Riverside sidings at Northampton. They were Mk3s,and although they didn't seem to be noticeable damaged each window reflected a slightly different angle of image along the coat suggesting a small but crucial twist distortion. You had to view from an angle to see this and all the photos of the 810 after the collision seem to be side on.
Lets just wait and see what happens to the unit.
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