Adam Williams
Established Member
They've stopped doing this in the last year or so, you're lucky to get a couple of months now. Not how the accreditation & standards process is supposed to work at all.
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Denied Boarding Hovertravel Portsmouth to Ryde
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Snow1964
Established Member
There is also contract law, a famous case which eventually made its way to Master of the Rolls (then Lord Denning) called Shoe Lane parking. The jist was the operator had a notice inside car park with extra terms. But it was deemed contract was made when machine at entrance took money, because it couldn't refund. Any terms and clauses not brought to attention (or displayed) at time contract made, couldn't be added later, and were invalid.
I'm surprised it's not part of the contract between RDG and the retailer. Or do they treat their contracts with retailers like they do their contracts with passengers?
Swedenorer
Member
It's made me think. When Wightlink was unloaded from Sealink I did wonder if through fares would disappear in fact they were extended to include a very interesting range of through bus fares with Stagecoach South also linked with Southern Vectis. Maybe at that point Hovertravel thougt they might like part of the action.
Haywain
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That might do if a fare routed 'Hovertravel' is available, but my point is that for much of the country such fares don't exist so the route cannot be offered.
WesternLancer
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interesting to read
philthetube
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you have the same potential issues on the Ratty, (Ravenglass and Eskdale light Railway), you can buy tickets on the main line train train valid on the ratty but they could all be fully booked.
I tried to fine them online with no joy but the ratty website says they are available and I have bought in the past.
I don't know if there are any other examples.
Mods, please feel free to create a new thread with this post if you feel this is warranted.
I tried to fine them online with no joy but the ratty website says they are available and I have bought in the past.
I don't know if there are any other examples.
Mods, please feel free to create a new thread with this post if you feel this is warranted.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
Definitely, but it is an issue with all of these rail-and-sail offers. The Steam Packet is the same, their website tells you "Once booked, contact our reservations team [to] confirm your ferry reservation." It doesn't say that you don't have a ferry reservation with your ticket and it doesn't tell you that at busy times they may be unable to accommodate you as a foot passenger on your preferred crossing. And yes, this does happen, especially during TT/Manx GP, when Liverpool are at home, and on Fridays and Sundays in high summer.
From memory, the P&O website was the same back in the days of the Calais daytripper.
SWR actually do have a good section on their website about travel with HoverTravel, and do specifically warn people that you may be denied travel at busy times without a reservation (my bold): https://www.southwesternrailway.com/train-tickets/combined-ferry-and-train-tickets
The issue for the OP is that the next one available was the next day.
There are countless examples across the network where a transfer between two stations is at your own cost.
That said, I wouldn't expect all of Wightlink, Red Funnel, and HoverTravel to decide to no longer accept rail tickets. HoverTravel might, though.
Not quite all! The approach for Harwich to Hoek van Holland is that you book on Stena Line's website and use the confirmation email as your rail ticket (not sure if there's an offline option).
This eliminates the booking for a crossing with no availability trap and means that different cabin types can be offered (not sure if the rail booking system could be configured to do this).
But the downside is that through fares are only available to Greater Anglia stations and there's only one price no matter how far away you are from Harwich, presumably as this makes it much easier to implement.
marshlinker
Member
I think the ETS 2026 carbon tax on ferry tickets may well achieve that. I can certainly see fastcat services being scaled back with foot passengers being diverted on to the more profitable car ferry with Portsmouth-Fishbourne not rail connected at either end Island line could well become a white elephant.
Gareth1990
Member
That would make me abandon Wightlink all together, Fishbourne frankly is in the middle of nowhere. I would just my business to Red Funnel
At the moment the ETS carbon tax only applies to vessels over a certain size. Wightlink’s Portsmouth - Fishbourne route is the only Isle of Wight route affected. Wightlink are recovering it through a surcharge on that route only.
HamworthyGoods
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Could you not claim via your travel insurance?
philthetube
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This info is also provided on the National rail site for sailings to Douglas, however it is not provided for flights to Ryde.
Slightly off topic though relevant when I booked to Douglas the member of ticket office staff made the reservation for me when I bought the ticket, although this must be 40 years ago so no idea if this would still hapen.
Skymonster
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I’ve never experienced that. Maybe, if there is occasionally some animosity towards rail ticket holders, it is founded in those travellers who arrive at the terminal without a reservation, don’t get on the flight they expect to use because its full, and then get shouty - when at the core of such issues is travellers who haven’t bothered to do a bit of basic research, not read the recommendations, and not made reservations.
Yeah good luck with that! I suspect that should an insurance company look into the situation, it’ll soon discover that would be passengers are recommended to request reservations with Hovertravel - and then quite reasonably deny the claim.
The iKB entry for IOM SPC still uses the phrasing "Station staff must contact IOMSPC..." but in practice if the customer is happy doing it themselves then that a) saves a job for the staff, and b) reduces chances of information being messed up.
marshlinker
Member
The fastcats are 17 years old currently. I think the issue will come when they are life expired. The foot passenger service hasn't covered its costs for some years. I'm sure it's the same for the Southampton based ferries.
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It would be interesting to know how many rail passengers Hovertravel actually attract, it's obviously worthwhile their effort but I'd suggest it's a somewhat niche market.
I remember the postings on here about the Calais day tripper tickets where you'd have believed it was a core product but it turned out that an average of one ticket per day was issued.
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Skymonster
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This is a bit off-topic for Hovertravel, but in my experiences with IOMSPC recently it has wanted to see a copy of the CCST Rail & Sail ticket before it will confirm reservations. IOMSPC also usually wants an email address, contact number and the full name and DOB of travellers. I tend to collect the tickets, take a picture with my phone, and then email the image to IOMSPC Customer Services along with those details and services I want to travel on. So far it has worked each time and I usually get a confirmation response within an hour or two (during office hours).
Good afternoon. Many thanks for everyone's reply. I discussed this with SWR's Management team at Waterloo station (they were on the concourse for their timetable consultation), they confirmed that the reservations information is not supplied to them by Hovertravel and Hovertravel offer them no function to reserve a seat on behalf of a customer. So it is entirely possible to purchase a ticket for use with Hovertravel when in fact the journey is not possible. They said I should take this up with Hovertravel which I will now do.
Sure, they're right in so much as the information isn't available to them. But it is within their gift (or the gift of their ticketing site supplier) to provide an appropriate caution to people buying those tickets that they should contact Hovertravel separately to make a reservation to ensure they can travel on their intended flight.
It's also within their gift to take the matter up with Hovertravel with a view to integrating their reservations into RARS, much as Stena Line do on their through ticketed ferry links. It's possible, it just takes some work that evidently neither Hovertravel nor SWR are interested in doing (or, presumably, paying for).
The "nothing to do with us" attitude prevalent across much of the industry needs to be stamped out. They are the ones taking passengers' money and issuing through tickets; that comes with the responsibility to make sure that the non-rail element of the journey is actually honoured.
Swedenorer
Member
As it happens I did a trial booking on Saturday morning for immediate travel and the booking site I used - Southern - would have gaily sold me a ticket for an itinerary that Hovertravel were already showing as fully booked - as was the flight an hour later, the next clock face timetable alternative. There was no rubric about reservations or the fact there was no guarantee of travel at all anywhere. As I mentioned earlier having been messed about by Hovertravel in the past I'd never use them but it really isn't good enough.
That's completely fair! I suppose I was thinking perfect is the enemy of good. We'll never get a TOC to take real responsibility (perfect) but they might at least put a proper warning on (good)
Oh yes, a warning would certainly be a good first step and I daresay any decent retailer aware of this thread would add one.That's completely fair! I suppose I was thinking perfect is the enemy of good. We'll never get a TOC to take real responsibility (perfect) but they might at least put a proper warning on (good)
Hello, here is the reply I received from Hovertravel:
We can advise that customers who purchase rail tickets which include cross solent travel with any of the three cross solent operators are not automatically booked onto any of the services provided by any operator. The rail operators do not provide any details of customers who have booked journeys which include cross solent travel and as such, none of the cross solent operators will be aware of any purchases that have been made.
As Hovertravel has been accepting through rail tickets for many years, we put in place a process whereby customers can contact us in advance of the day of travel to reserve a seat on a Hovercraft departure, to ensure that they can undertake their journey as required. This service is routinely used by many customers each day and is well received.
Full details of how this works and how to book is contained in the link below.
https://www.hovertravel.co.uk/connections/national-rail/
We can advise that national rails terms and conditions do advise that if your journey includes travel by a third party, such as a cross solent operator, that the third party’s terms and conditions do apply to that part of the journey. We can further advise that any customer who does not have an advanced, confirmed reservation with us, will only be accepted for travel, where unbooked seating exists on a departure at the time of checkin and this can mean a significant wait to travel at busier times, where services are fully booked. In addition to the above, if a customer arrives to travel with us, where they do not have a confirmed, advance reservation with us, such as a reservation made through the rail reservation process indicated in the link above and that departure is the last service of the day and there is no available seating, the customers will be required to arrange travel across the solent with another service provider at their own expense. Hovertravel has no obligation to offer alternative travel options or refunds, where no advance reservation is presented for the stated departure and our services are operating as advertised.
Our terms and conditions do advise the following regarding national rail tickets:
“Please also note that for tickets issued by third parties such as National Express and National Rail, you will need to contact the relevant third party for information regarding any compensation or liability and we shall have no responsibility or liability in that regard.”
As your purchase was made via National Rail, we are unable to assist with your enquiry further and we recommend that you contact the Rail service provider who sold the ticket to you, as indicated in the extract from our terms above.
I would appreciate comment with those more knowledgable on the legal aspects of this......
I will contact SWR next.
We can advise that customers who purchase rail tickets which include cross solent travel with any of the three cross solent operators are not automatically booked onto any of the services provided by any operator. The rail operators do not provide any details of customers who have booked journeys which include cross solent travel and as such, none of the cross solent operators will be aware of any purchases that have been made.
As Hovertravel has been accepting through rail tickets for many years, we put in place a process whereby customers can contact us in advance of the day of travel to reserve a seat on a Hovercraft departure, to ensure that they can undertake their journey as required. This service is routinely used by many customers each day and is well received.
Full details of how this works and how to book is contained in the link below.
https://www.hovertravel.co.uk/connections/national-rail/
We can advise that national rails terms and conditions do advise that if your journey includes travel by a third party, such as a cross solent operator, that the third party’s terms and conditions do apply to that part of the journey. We can further advise that any customer who does not have an advanced, confirmed reservation with us, will only be accepted for travel, where unbooked seating exists on a departure at the time of checkin and this can mean a significant wait to travel at busier times, where services are fully booked. In addition to the above, if a customer arrives to travel with us, where they do not have a confirmed, advance reservation with us, such as a reservation made through the rail reservation process indicated in the link above and that departure is the last service of the day and there is no available seating, the customers will be required to arrange travel across the solent with another service provider at their own expense. Hovertravel has no obligation to offer alternative travel options or refunds, where no advance reservation is presented for the stated departure and our services are operating as advertised.
Our terms and conditions do advise the following regarding national rail tickets:
“Please also note that for tickets issued by third parties such as National Express and National Rail, you will need to contact the relevant third party for information regarding any compensation or liability and we shall have no responsibility or liability in that regard.”
As your purchase was made via National Rail, we are unable to assist with your enquiry further and we recommend that you contact the Rail service provider who sold the ticket to you, as indicated in the extract from our terms above.
I would appreciate comment with those more knowledgable on the legal aspects of this......
I will contact SWR next.
I am very late to this thread but
In the airline world, this would 100% be a retailer problem, and that’s indeed what happens all the time with Online Travel Agencies.
Unless you are H-24, in which case the operating carrier has your booking for changes (at all times refunds would be dealt by the OTA), everything needs to go through your retailer as your contract is with the agency not the airline.
IMHO Hovertravel has a right to say, you don’t have a reservation, you can’t travel since you don’t have a contract with us.
Assuming there isn’t something deep, and enforceable, in retailer terms that say they’re not responsible, someone booking on SWR or NatEx or others, they don’t have a contract with Hovertravel, until they reserve, SWR has. It’s up to SWR to handle and refund/compensate an involved traveler.
Whether it is unfair is another issue in itself and won’t solve the issue of passenger misinformed or not following the rules, and I feel for all parties involved getting taken for a spin.
SWR isn't acting as a travel agency here. The contract is with Hovertrvael regardless of whether a reservation is made or not; indeed they accept passengers without reservations all the time. It is clearly unfair that they can deny travel for passengers on through tickets without recompense or refund.
The rail through tickets are something of an anachronism. Ideally there would be some sort of linked reservations system, but the more likely outcome from an entrenched complaint that goes further is they just jack it in and you've got to book directly, making things more expensive for everyone.
Skymonster
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Indeed.
No, the customer’s contract is with SWR. SWR sub-contracted part of the journey to Hovertravel. It is SWR’s failing if it did not tell the customer that they needed to independently make reservations with Hovertravel. How can Hovertravel have any liability? In the absence of linked reservations systems it has no knowledge of any rail ticket holder unless and until they reserve a Solent crossing or show up at the Southsea terminal.
Yes... Those who cannot be bothered to check the full arrangements for what they are buying (in this case simply reviewing the Hovertravel website), and then self-entitledly start causing a fuss and trying to claim unwarranted compensation, simply risk ruining good deals that benefit the majority. IMO the OP needs to accept that they didn’t make enough effort to understand the product that they had bought and put down any extra expense they incurred to a learning exercise.
For sure it is unfair, but the fact that they do accept walk-up passengers is wholly irrelevant.
Let’s assume, for the sake of argument, you do indeed have separate contract by the action of booking it.
A contract you aren’t even made aware of is not an enforceable contract.
I have had a cursory look on the SWR, Trainline and Trainsplit website, nowhere does it mention you have a separate contract nor any mention of separate terms and conditions you may agree to by booking
Eg on SWR basket with a Hovertravel ticket in it (the same is repeated in their terms)
There is nowhere, even on their Terms page to read the tickets terms and conditions
Granted there is a “you must reserve space on the ferry at hovertravel” but I would argue, IANAL, that this doesn’t constitute an acceptance of Hovertravel terms at all until you tick the accept box on the hovertravel website itself.
Until that’s done, SWR terms and responsability is engaged and it’s up to them to make sure you are able to travel on the exact itinerary they sold, like for trains.
This is very different than for example SNCF Connect where there are very clear warnings that you are going to be agreeing to another transport contract as part of a TER-TGV connection for example.