Tartanarmy85
Member
- Joined
- 6 Jul 2018
- Messages
- 52
Last edited:
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Ember: Electric coach service
- Thread starter ClydeCoaster
- Start date
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Stan Drews
Established Member
- Joined
- 5 Jun 2013
- Messages
- 2,139
Perhaps they are finally realising that if you wish to grow without training any new drivers, there is a limit to how many licence holders you can steal from other operators, or entice back to the industry from other employment.
It hasn't been announced yet, unsure where that link came from as it seems to be internal use only. There is a lot more to the website that staff can see and I suspect it's been through a link there that it's been posted.
It will be a valid service but stops and dates have been removed though the dates match with the E19 start dates
gingerheid
Established Member
- Joined
- 2 Apr 2006
- Messages
- 1,714
Edit: Removed followed message from moderators.
Last edited:
Meaning?
gingerheid
Established Member
- Joined
- 2 Apr 2006
- Messages
- 1,714
Venture Capital / Private Equity funded startups go through a number of stages.
At the first stage the priority is PR; proving that the product is capable of working and that people like it. They needed to show that the buses wouldn't run out of electric juice on the Forth bridge while simultaneously combusting, terrifying the passengers that were already throwing up because of the unique awfulness of electric buses. (And, for example, Netflix needed to show that it's possible to watch films online). Happy customers are vital at this stage, and revenue really doesn't matter that much.
Once they show the product can work, they need to prove that the product is capable of being expanded to a level where it can be more efficient. They needed to show how many buses could run out one depot and that kind of thing. (and Netflix needed to prove they could provide lots of films and have lots of people watching the). PR is still vital, and revenue is less important than demonstrating how much you can expand and gain market share.
Once they show that the product can be expanded, they need to raise the money to do so, and do so as quickly as they possibly can. PR is still vital, and revenue is still not so important. At this stage Ember need to prove they can open a network of depots across the country ,start lots of routes and join the dots, and gain market share (and Netflix needed to get as much market share as possible and offer as wide a range of films as possible). Customer satisfaction is really important.
Once the product has been expanded to pretty as far as it can go, the priority may be to become as profitable as possible, possibly with a view to selling the company for as much as possible. The important thing is to generate as much revenue as possible and to make as much profit as possible, including making short term decisions that increase profit providing that potential buyers don't realise that's what you're doing. Ember may arrive at this stage soon, and might want to start cancelling less busy journeys or routes, finding out exactly how much it can charge (including finding out how much peak journeys can be yield managed, finding out how much costs can be cut... all the bad things. Customer revenue is more important than customer satisfaction. This is where Netflix started increasing prices, including adverts, clamping down on account sharing, charging more for higher resolution, etc etc.
HighlandStorm
Member
Is the bus service actually the core objective or a platform to demonstrate tech? The company is Ember Core Ltd and Ember Core OS their in-house tech platform.
Is selling the tech package for intensively managing electric bus/coach fleets the principle purpose of Ember?
Is selling the tech package for intensively managing electric bus/coach fleets the principle purpose of Ember?
The bus services are a side hustle for them essentially
gingerheid
Established Member
- Joined
- 2 Apr 2006
- Messages
- 1,714
They say that they are a tech company, but the product they offer to customers is bus tickets, not software. They say that their aim is to be the leading UK coach operator, and to do this by having the better customer service that results from not just better software developed in-house, but also running buses themselves and not contracting anything out.
If they are a tech company, then they're not a tech company in the sense of Flix or Uber, whose paying customers are both the passengers and the transport providers who pay for access to customers. In fact they're more of a bus company than National Express's coach operations!
Interview
If they are a tech company, then they're not a tech company in the sense of Flix or Uber, whose paying customers are both the passengers and the transport providers who pay for access to customers. In fact they're more of a bus company than National Express's coach operations!
Last edited:
Talking of National Express and Flixbus etc, might the long-term goal be a franchise model where other companies can pay to use the technology and run the services, rather than some sort of slash-and-burn fire sale as others have predicted.
An official announcement was never made however the E19 Livingston to Edinburgh Airport should be starting on the 1st July as per registration on VOSA.
Ember have never been known to announce routes with much notice so there is still time for them to announce anything
AndrewTaylor95
Member
They've just announced the E19 service between Livingston and Edinburgh Airport starting on Wednesday, seems to be a 24/7 service on a 20 minute frequency
Wonder when the Glasgow to Edinburgh Airport service will start then, Probably don't have enough staff for the route yet
Wonder when the Glasgow to Edinburgh Airport service will start then, Probably don't have enough staff for the route yet
scottishtrains
Member
Every 20 mins 24/7 on a route which has next to 0 demand? Very overkill if you ask me, stupid decision from Ember
(Edit - here’s the frequency during the middle of the night…)
Attachments
AndrewTaylor95
Member
Head scratcher for sure
It will be a feeder service for services starting at the Airport.
AndrewTaylor95
Member
A feeder service every 20 minutes 24/7 sounds very odd, They've not announced any other services starting from the Airport as yet
Strathtay 260
Member
It will be for the E20 from Edinburgh Airport to Glasgow... better than running dead!
AndrewTaylor95
Member
They've not announced that service yet, They've announced the E19 as a standalone service with 2 route variations
They haven't announced it officially yet, but that is the next service to be launched
scottishtrains
Member
But is that running every 20 mins 24/7 too then? Cause that won’t do very well in my opinion through the night
There are plenty of people who travel from West Lothian to the airport. At £4 ish each way it is far cheaper than a taxi or other public transport. There must be some demand or the 902 would be finished already.
I wonder if it will pick up some local traffic too. Cheaper and quicker to Broxburn than the 72 and seems to be mostly timed in between their journeys.
It reminds me of the Horsburgh 777 nearly 20 years ago:
https://web.archive.org/web/20080313234133/http://www.horsburghcoaches.com/service_routes/777.htm
That was an hourly circular and served all stops (IIRC), Ember is doing an equivalent 40 min headway.
It's an extra £1.40 on the fare to travel from Ingliston to the Airport. I wonder if that's some indication of the airport passenger fee.
Strathtay 260
Member
68 departures in each direction I believe
markymark2000
On Moderation
Interestingly also largely uses different stops to the 902 between Broxburn and Uphall for passengers to the Airport or towards Livingston Centre.
The thing that I don't get though is that the via Ratho journeys serve Newbridge but the ones via Broxburn serve Ratho Station. Surely swapping these around would mean that towards livingston the bus could save a minute or so going via Station Road and Harvest Drive rather than forcing it to use Newbridge Roundabout (towards the Airport the bus would have to still go via Cliftonhall Road but at least one direction it could save a small bit of time).
Just remember until there's an official announcement no one knows what the route will be
overthewater
Established Member
- Joined
- 16 Apr 2012
- Messages
- 9,086
Service 555/777 was a Bus route Development grant, and it was a complete waste of money, half the money went on Brand new double deckers, worse still there was no service before 7am and very little after 8pm. The service went everywhere around Livingston but picked up no one for the airport because it took far too long, that was Horsburgh style back then.
Then the cut Weekend service into 90min horseshoe, and then extended the weekday service to Whitburn, but they still couldn't understand why people were not using it for the airport.. Ie if you lived in Mid calder you had to go via A71. It was no use to alot of people... Then they started route 559 Bathgate - Broxburn to Gyle so it took away even more passengers from the 555/777.
This 40min headway could surprise alot of people, and they fact they have placed it, in-between Lothian 72 means they have spotted a gap in the market from Broxburn to Livingston and I think they will pick up alot local passengers on the route - Sorry Lothian you snozze your lose!! I bet there a fair few works who might just jump ship, Infact there 10 passengers already booked on the 08.34 from Broxburn to Livingston, tomorrow 1st July.
"Journey must be booked " I bet they been told to pick up the pass holders...
Last edited:
They cannot pick up anyone on route as they can't issue tickets to anyone that hails the bus. They can take anyone waiting if someone else is booked though but those journeys that have no one booked they can operate directly to airport from depot without going via any stops if required and skipping the entire route