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Should schools in the UK be fitted with air conditioning?

Harpo

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Interesting you say that, as while I too oppose academisation (bit late now though) the impression I have is that an obvious consequence of it has been a bit of "Harry Potter-isation" with increasingly esoteric traditional formal uniforms rather than the more basic polo shirt and trousers which had become common up to the 2010s.
Quite - Unbranded but utterly bespoke & quite ludicrous tartan pattern skirts hundreds of miles south of the Scottish border. Luckily the one girl it affects in our family prefers trousers.

Education, a customer service industry that treats its customers like errant suppliers and cash cows.
 
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The exile

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Not much good for a listed building, but I don't know why shutters aren't especially commonplace on British buildings. Many places on the continent, including places with just about the same climate as the UK (such as northern France) have shutters on windows - they keep the elements out generally, not just heat. Older buildings usually have hinged shutters and newer ones tend to be metal ones that roll down (usually with a windy stick or a button or even a remote control on a fancier building). Either way they do a pretty good job at keeping heat out
And the cold, of course ;though being on the outside of the glass they are less good at that - especially if metal.
 

m0ffy

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I’ma governor at two schools in the same trust, and I’m lobbying for A/C installation in both - partially funded by decarbonisation grants due to their heating efficiency. Realistically, our choices are to manage temperatures better, or shift the school year to start and finish earlier. Neither will be easy.
 

Crossover

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My school was built (mostly) about -5 years ago and AC is far from prevalent, constrained to 4 IT suites, about 4 teaching classrooms and the fitness centre, alongside the usual places where the core IT kit hangs out

Frustratingly most of the IT suites have no fitted working AC at the moment after it failed in February and the building ‘owners’ (we are a BSF school still in our contract) have dilly dallied that much over it it won’t get fixed until the big holidays now

Looking at what I’m struggling to get funding for, I can’t imagine fitment of AC to the rest of school is high on the priority list!

BSF - Building Schools for the Future
 

Mogster

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All new schools should have solar, batteries and HVAC. OK it’s a cost to install and maintain but in summer when the cooling is getting a workout then the solar should sort out the energy costs. Comfort has been demonstrated as making a large difference to productivity. How are kids supposed to concentrate if they are uncomfortable. Then there’s the disruption when schools have to close due to hot weather…

There seems to be a some sort of luddite attitude to A/C in this country. You can have it in B&Q and Tesco, but not in your house or kids school… It’s getting warmer, that attitude needs to stop. Build new residential with batteries, solar and HVAC, it makes sense.
 

AndrewE

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All new schools should have solar, batteries and HVAC. OK it’s a cost to install and maintain but in summer when the cooling is getting a workout then the solar should sort out the energy costs. Comfort has been demonstrated as making a large difference to productivity. How are kids supposed to concentrate if they are uncomfortable. Then there’s the disruption when schools have to close due to hot weather…

There seems to be a some sort of luddite attitude to A/C in this country. You can have it in B&Q and Tesco, but not in your house or kids school… It’s getting warmer, that attitude needs to stop. Build new residential with batteries, solar and HVAC, it makes sense.
... but don't forget the value of awnings too.
 

brad465

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Something I've been having trouble with the last 2 days is getting heat out of my house, even when the outside air temperature is cooler all day and through drafts are possible (the indoor temperature drops, but then rises again as soon as this is cut off). I'm guessing a lot of heat is effectively locked in the walls that is only slowly being released, which isn't helped by running electrical appliances that generate waste heat.

If this is prevalent in schools as well, there maybe a need to greatly improve ventilation to constantly remove heat where air conditioning isn't possible. Potentially having some sort of chimney feature above classrooms that allows heat to escape when there's too much of it, but can be sealed in the winter when heat needs to be retained, may help, though I wouldn't be surprised if air con is cheaper and easier to install than this idea.
 

andrewgs

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In the near future schools will need their boilers replaced with heat pumps anyway. At which point I can see most going A2A as you don't need much hot water in most buildings, only for sinks in toilets. Potentially a better use of government funds than the residential grant.

Something I've been having trouble with the last 2 days is getting heat out of my house, even when the outside air temperature is cooler all day and through drafts are possible (the indoor temperature drops, but then rises again as soon as this is cut off). I'm guessing a lot of heat is effectively locked in the walls that is only slowly being released, which isn't helped by running electrical appliances that generate waste heat.

Buy the largest fan you can, mine is 16". Place it pointing at a window, 1+ meters away from the window. Close the other windows in the room and open those on the other side of the house. The fan pushes air through the window. This air gets replaced by air taken in from the windows on the other side of the house. See
 

Sorcerer

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There seems to be a some sort of luddite attitude to A/C in this country. You can have it in B&Q and Tesco, but not in your house or kids school… It’s getting warmer, that attitude needs to stop. Build new residential with batteries, solar and HVAC, it makes sense.
I've seem some people argue against it because it uses energy which contributes to climate change, even though we never apply that argument to heating, and our electricity grid is increasingly decarbonised and rightly so. But for some reason we still have a few people who believe that despite other developed nations that deal with heat using air conditioning that Europe must remain a continent of academics and activists where the greenest thing to do is suffer as penance for our sins that lead to climate change (somewhat hyperbolic on my part).
 

Harpo

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Buy the largest fan you can, mine is 16". Place it pointing at a window, 1+ meters away from the window. Close the other windows in the room and open those on the other side of the house. The fan pushes air through the window. This air gets replaced by air taken in from the windows on the other side of the house.
My kitchen is on the hot (south) end of our living area. I close windows and blinds that side, put the kitchen hob extractor on and open a window on the north side of the house.
 

Cdd89

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I'm surprised we've got through three pages without someone suggesting buying portable units, one for each classroom. For the sake of a few weeks a year (given that schools are off for most of the summer), they don't need to be very energy-efficient. Even in the current funding crisis that could surely be afforded?

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Which is especially effective as there is a strong correlation between AC demand and available solar energy.
A couple of things. First, there's less difference between solar energy on warm days vs cold days thank you might be imagining, since solar panels use light not heat. Second, in summer energy use is lower anyway because people aren't heating their homes, so it can come out of the heating 'budget'.

Also (which wasn't your point, but rather that of @Bletchleyite whom you quoted), I'm very against more planning regulations on A/C. If people want A/C they should be able to easily get the most efficient system for their property. Planning regulations mean people just get those portable units instead, which are far less efficient to start with, and lose even more efficiency given that people install them through leaky open windows.

This isn't to argue against solar panels, which should be installed irrespective; it's just that I am not sure there's as much of a link to AC adoption as is being implied :)
 
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Bikeman78

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If you think awnings might be too difficult, how can A/C possibly be more easily done or more affordable?
Because it's the UK. Everything is too difficult. Anyway, my kids had the day off on Thursday, even though the school was still open. They don't complain about much but during heatwaves, they always say how nice and cool it is in my house after sweating at school all day. It was getting bad in my house by Thursday, so school would have been awful, and I wouldn't expect them to tolerate conditions that I wouldn't tolerate myself. Luckily I had the day off work. If this rancid heat becomes more normal, then something will have to be done or the country will shut down several times a year.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Presumably they mean like Germany with its legally binding max. Temperature (or the school closes).
I remember my German teacher telling me about that way back in the 1990s. It's called hitzefrei. Funny how the memory retains useless bits of information.
 
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jon0844

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I've seem some people argue against it because it uses energy which contributes to climate change, even though we never apply that argument to heating, and our electricity grid is increasingly decarbonised and rightly so. But for some reason we still have a few people who believe that despite other developed nations that deal with heat using air conditioning that Europe must remain a continent of academics and activists where the greenest thing to do is suffer as penance for our sins that lead to climate change (somewhat hyperbolic on my part).

My portable air conditioners have run almost entirely off my solar generation, and overnight from the battery. Yes, it does mean I've exported less energy and lost out on the 12p per kWH I could have earned - so there has been a cost to me, but it's worth it.

And my systems are incredibly inefficient.. using almost 3kWh if all three are on at once.

An air to air system is more likely going to be around 1-1.5kWh and be so much more effective that it won't need to be on almost permanently to maintain a decent temperature.

Given how many panels a school could likely fit on their buildings, or at a push at ground level even if it reduces some playground/field space, I am sure they could be totally green. Not only would be cooling be free, but any export to the grid means nearby properties are getting totally green energy too.

I'm surprised we've got through three pages without someone suggesting buying portable units, one for each classroom. For the sake of a few weeks a year (given that schools are off for most of the summer), they don't need to be very energy-efficient. Even in the current funding crisis that could surely be afforded?

To be honest, it would be next to useless and only help those sat directly in front of it. I suppose the kids could rotate to be near it, but that wouldn't be disruptive at all!

We have three at home and on the hottest days last week, when the schools had to close early, I moved one into our living/dining room. The hose went out the back door and blinds were closed and curtains drawn. I used a towel to try and close the gap as best as possible.

Working flat out, it couldn't get the temperature down to under 26 degrees (outside temp maybe 35-37). Again, if you sat in front of the cooler, you got cooler - but it was near useless.

Maybe that would be better than nothing, but I am sure that in a large classroom complete with lots of bodies giving off 100s of watts of heat each, it wouldn't even make a dent.

You can get more powerful portable A/Cs that are around 14,000BTU and maybe higher (the sort the school would likely get from a specialist company, not the local B&Q or Lidl!) but I still don't think it would help. It would need to be on all day, from very early on to work before it got too hot outside, and if the classroom has loads of glass then you need to block that all off too.

Ceiling fans might offer some more comfort, and dehumidifiers can dry the air to make it more comfortable - but they usually generate heat (my Maeco certainly does) which is nice in the winter for drying clothes in the living room, but maybe not wanted on an already hot day.
 
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Bikeman78

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Working flat out, it couldn't get the temperature down to under 26 degrees (outside temp maybe 35-37). Again, if you sat in front of the cooler, you got cooler - but it was near useless.
Does it take out moisture too? In which case 26 degrees would be a lot better than nothing. I took a thermometer in my car last week. It was 26 or 27 degrees with the air con switched on. It was perfectly pleasant to drive in. Much nicer than home or the outside world.
 

jon0844

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Does it take out moisture too? In which case 26 degrees would be a lot better than nothing. I took a thermometer in my car last week. It was 26 or 27 degrees with the air con switched on. It was perfectly pleasant to drive in. Much nicer than home or the outside world.

Yes, it will be trying to dehumidify too but I'm not sure how effective it will be.
 

jon0844

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It's pretty good. One reason to have it on all year is that it clears a steamed up windscreen in seconds.

Great in a sealed home or car, but I really don't think you'd get far in a classroom. If the windows are open, as I can't imagine they wouldn't be if there's no A/C, it will be trying to dehumidify the whole world!
 

Russel

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It does seem ludicrous that it hasn't been the norm in new buildings for decades.

It's far easier and cheaper to bury our heads in the sand and pretend the problem isn't there, same with so many other things, it's a UK trait.
 

jon0844

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It's far easier and cheaper to bury our heads in the sand and pretend the problem isn't there, same with so many other things, it's a UK trait.

I got my first car with air conditioning back in 1992. It wasn't new, so I had to search hard to find one - and my friends, as well as dealers looking for the car, all said 'Why do you need air conditioning? It's only hot about 2 days a year'.

People have been saying that pretty much ever since. Not so much for cars, especially now it's pretty much standard on even poverty spec cars.. and certainly people want it for their workplace, and expect it in shops etc - but for home? They're still of the same mindset that never seems to change. Not only that but the usual response is 'get a fan' as if that does anything useful except when the air is being blown directly on you (which can be distracting and certainly not help when you want to sleep).

Really, really hot days are rare in the grand scheme of things. We may be getting more of them, but if you measured as a percentage over a whole year then they'd still be rare. But, this ignores the fact that on those hot days it is unbearable for most people and potentially dangerous for others.

Even when it's 25-26 outside, which many wouldn't consider to be excessively hot, the construction of most homes can still make it hard to sleep, which has health implications if it continues for multiple days.

I am sure we're now getting a little closer to when people make that final move and accept air conditioning is useful in a home but we seem far from getting there. The anti net zero mob also makes it harder, as people will hear about heat pumps and immediately think they're a bad thing and we should be pushing more gas boilers and increasing the drilling off the north coast.
 

The exile

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I got my first car with air conditioning back in 1992. It wasn't new, so I had to search hard to find one - and my friends, as well as dealers looking for the car, all said 'Why do you need air conditioning? It's only hot about 2 days a year'.

People have been saying that pretty much ever since. Not so much for cars, especially now it's pretty much standard on even poverty spec cars.. and certainly people want it for their workplace, and expect it in shops etc - but for home? They're still of the same mindset that never seems to change. Not only that but the usual response is 'get a fan' as if that does anything useful except when the air is being blown directly on you (which can be distracting and certainly not help when you want to sleep).

Really, really hot days are rare in the grand scheme of things. We may be getting more of them, but if you measured as a percentage over a whole year then they'd still be rare. But, this ignores the fact that on those hot days it is unbearable for most people and potentially dangerous for others.

Even when it's 25-26 outside, which many wouldn't consider to be excessively hot, the construction of most homes can still make it hard to sleep, which has health implications if it continues for multiple days.

I am sure we're now getting a little closer to when people make that final move and accept air conditioning is useful in a home but we seem far from getting there. The anti net zero mob also makes it harder, as people will hear about heat pumps and immediately think they're a bad thing and we should be pushing more gas boilers and increasing the drilling off the north coast.
Especially now wfh has changed the situation materially. One thing to come home to a house that’s a bit over hot just at the point in the day when it starts to cool down (what was particularly unusual about last week was the fact that night time temperatures were so high); a completely different situation when you’re sitting in it and heating it up with a computer all day.
 

jon0844

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Especially now wfh has changed the situation materially. One thing to come home to a house that’s a bit over hot just at the point in the day when it starts to cool down (what was particularly unusual about last week was the fact that night time temperatures were so high); a completely different situation when you’re sitting in it and heating it up with a computer all day.

Yeah, I forgot to say that. A very good point - people need a 'cool head' to be able to work efficiently from home. It's why I bought my first portable A/C when I was freelancing and couldn't concentrate when it was boiling in my (then) flat.
 

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