stormcoffeecat
Member
How do you download the trial version?
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
TfW class 398 Stadler Citylink tram trains
- Thread starter Bob Price
- Start date
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
H&I
Member
But even then, I feel like the 756s are still a bit too warm. When it come to air conditioning, the 398028 was a 3/10, 756s are a 6/10, and 800028 on my way home was a 10/10. Perhaps Stadler could take a leaf out of Hitachi's book.
thejsa
Member
It’s invite-only; look for a notification within the app in the PAYG section, I had one which took me to a form to apply.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this goes public soon ish, though, as it seems pretty final.
(Might be worth moving any further chat on this to the South Wales Metro updates thread or a new one, though, to avoid getting too sidetracked.)
stormcoffeecat
Member
Thanks. Hopefully I'll get an invite soon
chargesmith
Member
I'm sorry but there's no way this will happen and I'm disappointed that people are still engaging with what is obviously not true.
The same user who insisted that the units didn't have enough battery range to do the job they are designed for is now claiming that they are now going to have a costly retrofit that's going to make them much heavier which would reduce the battery range further, both things can't be true so I strongly suspect neither claim is.
Presumably they would also have to provide - and operate - facilities to empty them. Toilets at stations sound more practical to me.
Looks as if - unlike yesterday - the Bay service is running just as a shuttle to Queen Street all day, except for the 398 runs in the morning. That would explain the 150 sitting in platform 1 at Queen Street waiting to take over one the 398 was out of the way.
I would suggest that assessing its performance on what is turning out to be the hottest June week on record is probably not a fair representation of how it will work in less extreme conditions.
tfw756rider
On Moderation
Yes - from what I understand, the software now has a brighter 'train mode' for the headlights that has allowed the units to be "de-yellowed", and can now switch to the previous, lower brightness level as the 'tram mode' for non-dazzling street running.
Envoy
Established Member
- Joined
- 29 Aug 2014
- Messages
- 3,126
The fact is that with global warming, these periods of extreme heat are becoming more common - all the more reason therefore, to make the 398’s future proof.
StripeyNick
Member
398024 showing as entering service today
About to take a ride on it. My first on a 398… my dream of taking it to ponty lido on Monday was thwarted!
Aircon is amazing. But patchy. Nothing at the front on this one.
Only to QS today. They’re chatting with the tech guys about lowering the air on temp.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Well it was a short hop to QS but I loved it. For a Bay resident it’s wonderful because I’m used to 150s and tbh would usually just walk or cycle as a result!
But if you’ve gotten used to the 756s I can imagine it feels like a downgrade from a regional commuter train to something more like the metropolitan line…
I have a massive pro tram bias though and dream of it running along the pedestrianised areas in town… as much street running as possible… straight through Bute park as well!
Aircon is amazing. But patchy. Nothing at the front on this one.
Only to QS today. They’re chatting with the tech guys about lowering the air on temp.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Well it was a short hop to QS but I loved it. For a Bay resident it’s wonderful because I’m used to 150s and tbh would usually just walk or cycle as a result!
But if you’ve gotten used to the 756s I can imagine it feels like a downgrade from a regional commuter train to something more like the metropolitan line…
I have a massive pro tram bias though and dream of it running along the pedestrianised areas in town… as much street running as possible… straight through Bute park as well!
Last edited:
When has any train launch gone smooth? There will always be issues that need addressing, whether that be with the units or the train crew getting used to them. It's happened with just about every fleet introduction TFW have had, and probably every other TOC has had.
What appears to be clear to see, is that the introduction has brought one unit per day into service and there's been relatively little issue with them.
398024, 398028 and 398031 have all been in service.
Of all the things you've highlighted about the doom and gloom of these units, the majority of it appears to be debunked.
Go and enjoy your retirement.
trainspotter4
Member
One thing which was interesting to see, more for the infrastructure thread but the 398s are not using the OLE down Cardiff Bay, is this a fleet issue or infrastructure? And anyone know what the plan is for the coming days when things cool down, I suspect it's one unit for a full days diagram but cannot find anything currently?
Indeed.
Although sadly it looks from RealtimeTrains as if this morning's service has ended prematurely.
VR494
Member
The show is definitely not over yet, and all things 398 are certainly not as they seem, and that’s genuine. Plenty of failures and faults I’m hearing daily.
The new transport minister for Wales has supposedly instructed them to retrofit the units with toilets, there will be an additional order of units coming, and these may have them installed, to be coupled up on the short term with non toilet units in 6 car format. If they can be fitted only Stadler will know that answer.
Also for you all, the air conditioning has been confirmed as follows:
Class 398
There’s aircon in the driver’s cab and passenger saloon. Saloon HVAC follows EN14750 standard setpoint curves for Category B (urban vehicles). It aims to keep inside temperatures 3°C cooler than outside, up to a maximum limit. The drivers cab HVAC can be adjusted up or down by a small amount by the traincrew.
Envoy
Established Member
- Joined
- 29 Aug 2014
- Messages
- 3,126
In Cardiff today, the temperature is in the 30’s. Fat lot of use it is if the air con can only reduce the temperature inside by only 3C.
It would be an extremely naive new minister to order them to do that.
What they might do is to ask for a report on the feasibility and estimated capital and ongoing costs of doing so, (which, as has previously been discussed, be extremely expensive, and take up a lot of capacity in the units).
And also, presumably, capacity in the depot too to provide the necessary facilities to empty them, or they won't be a lot of use. (And also anywhere they are outstationed overnight?)
Supposedly? More rumours...
398's have similar capacity to a 150, without the toilet. Installing a toilet will vastly reduce capacity.
It would take a big order to double up the units. Where will they be stabled?
Another post many will be sceptical of.
More sense would be to order more Flirts to work up the Valleys and concentrate the 398's on more local routes.
Their air cons love a good breakdown though. As much as 3°C less than outside sounds hellish to someone who doesn't like the heat, if it can manage it consistently and not leak or breakdown and cook you then perhaps it's okay. Like others have said the Welsh weather even in summer mostly tops out in the 20s and that's fine.
VR494
Member
The new order will be stabled in Treherbert sidings along with the new depot facilities currently being constructed. Taffs well will be taking all 36 units of the current order. It does have the capacity.
Yes, ideally they should have bought flirts, but the long term plan is to remove the heavy rail from the TAM and have a cheaper option which will allow a more cost efficient transport network for customers. It will no doubt become another colour of the T network one day, and probably franchised out as well to a company like stagecoach etc.
I’m so glad I retired out of it, it’s an absolute joke of a set up, pouring tax payers money down the drain or portable toilet. They’ll probably start charging to use them one day too!
Person who repeatedly makes wild claims makes wild claims. More at 10. *Sigh*
Glad to see they've managed to get some into service and during an extremely testing week at that (though as others have said this will be the new norm during much of the lifetime of these units so it's important they can cope). Interesting to hear that the gap fillers might be faster and I'm wondering if that's a "setting" that can be changed on the FLIRTs to speed up their dwell times.
It's always been the unofficial but fairly well understood stance that penarth and coryton would eventually end up with these too so hopefully they do get a few more in and start to really boost the network in Cardiff itself. I believe there was even some funding for this in the recent funding round. But even more likely now that Mr Devolution looks to be taking over central government.
Glad to see they've managed to get some into service and during an extremely testing week at that (though as others have said this will be the new norm during much of the lifetime of these units so it's important they can cope). Interesting to hear that the gap fillers might be faster and I'm wondering if that's a "setting" that can be changed on the FLIRTs to speed up their dwell times.
It's always been the unofficial but fairly well understood stance that penarth and coryton would eventually end up with these too so hopefully they do get a few more in and start to really boost the network in Cardiff itself. I believe there was even some funding for this in the recent funding round. But even more likely now that Mr Devolution looks to be taking over central government.
Daniel Boone
Member
Can we possibly have a split in threads for talk of toilet provision on the CVL? Toilet provision extends beyond just the traction.
That would be nice. But even if it's mechanical it's not obvious to me why FLIRTS couldn't have had faster ones since the 398s do.
Of course what would make a huge change to FLIRT dwell times would be driver control of the doors.
Another thing that 398s seem to do better is manual announcements - they don't have the long lag that means it's almost impossible to hear what's being said if you're near enough to here the guard speaking as well as the PA. (Can't be very nice for the guard either).
chargesmith
Member
When I checked earlier it said the service was cancelled "for an unknown reason (XJ)". When I was out earlier it was parked up in Pontypridd bay platform but had gone later on.
Looks as if it went out of service at the Bay, then ran out of passenger service (empty coaching stock) to Pontypridd after which I presume it went back to the depot.
Given that I don't suppose it takes much at this stage to play it safe and take it out of service I don't think they've done too badly this week so far, particular given the high temperatures.
Bob Price
Established Member
- Joined
- 8 Aug 2019
- Messages
- 1,243
To put in the passing loop at Rhiwbina would need a second platform. Access to it would need a lift or ramps, adding costs. However if the lines is run in tram mode using line of sight, then borrow crossings are allowed.
Likewise north of Coryton to Velindre and possibly Asda at Coryton would be difficult to do in rail mode but easier on tram mode. So the future for more 398's looks very positive.
There was someone discussion on the train about getting a tech person with a laptop to lower the target temperature on the AC so it didn’t keep turning itself off…
They said that if that couldn’t be done they would pull it from service early because it was going to get too hot too quickly.
That’s one possible reason at least…
When I was on it the AC was on and was lovely…