Chorley Cake
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Does anybody know where 022 & 031 are ?
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CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.
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tfw756rider
On Moderation
Realtime Trains | 3C11 1040 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Shrewsbury | 19/06/2026
Real-time train running information for 3C11 1040 departure from Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Shrewsbury on 19/06/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Realtime Trains | 3C12 1226 Shrewsbury to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs | 19/06/2026
Real-time train running information for 3C12 1226 departure from Shrewsbury to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs on 19/06/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
197/s on test on the cambrian today.
Driver and guard training. 3 197s are based at Machynlleth and driver and guard training runs are scheduled for Machynlleth-Aberystwyth-Machynlleth, Machynlleth-Pwllheli-Machynlleth and Machynlleth-Shrewsbury-Machynlleth every week now (it's not the case of the random odd "test" anymore). Only some of them run though of course.
Jacob Porrett
Established Member
Ok thank you.
Snow1964
Established Member
Seems they can't maintain the existing 158s fast enough, whilst waiting to introduce the 197s
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tfw.wales
Cambrian short forms have been the norm for a long time especially the lack of a Pwllheli portion on combined trains. I’ve had ‘set swaps’ (changing trains on a through service) at all of Shrewsbury, Machynlleth and Dovey Jn (!) over the last year.
tfw756rider
On Moderation
We've of course had only 22 (rather than 24) 158s since the October 2024 Talerddig crash.
There will only be 21 ETCS-fitted 197s, at least from the original order (obviously any extra ones can't be discussed in here),
but apparently the 197 ETCS equipment (though it initially had issues) is a lot more reliable than the 158 ETCS equipment.
Supposedly, that means that availability can be higher, but of course that also depends on the reliabilty of the 197s themselves...
Many thanks. I’ll be very interested to see how the 197 changeover goes.
I was aware of the -2 for Tallerddig but wonder why TfW didn’t adjust services to match rather than a stream of haphazard daily short forms and random set swaps? I can’t think of any other TOC that does set swaps on anywhere near TfW’s scale, if at all.
I checked availability of the 197 fleet on Monday - 23/51 197'0s were not in service - nearly 50% of the fleet and 8/26 197'1s not in service - nearly 33% of the fleet.Availability certainly needs to be improved.
Only 28 in service seems very low - thats about 20 diagrams short? Were there lots of short forms ? I didnt notice anything on Monday.
Thats more like the number id expect. I think on paper there are 49 diagrams but today maybe a few less due to timetable changes.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
60% - that's unbelievably poor (but I believe you).
you have to keep in mind that only 49 out of 77 are booked at the moment. The number will go up when the Cambrian service switches to 197s.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Of course, that is arguably 18 down on a requirement not needed of 21.
Yes although currently several of the 21 units are covering for other out of service units. So it could be very interesting to see what happens when they do start on the Cambrian
Peter Sarf
Established Member
I agree, and I have been fretting over that agonising fact for quite a while !.
Granted when the Tram-Trains take over the valleys that will make a huge difference to unplanned need for 197s.
Then it is the two or three 197s on the Wrexham/Bidston line.
nigelsporne
Member
With the advent of the revised North Wales services arguably the 197s are now doing more of the diagrams they were originally intended for. However is this a false notion on my behalf because the Cambrian units are effectively papering over the cracks?
According to RTT there are 44 x 197s in service today - 26 x 2 car and 18 x 3 car.
The following not in service - 002 006 007 008 011 014 016 020 023 024 027 028 029 030 031 033 036 037 039 042 043 046 047 050 051 103 106 109 111 113 122 123 125
197102 was swapped at Llanelli for 197117 - a strange place for a set swap! Also 197121 is showing on the Cambrian in error
The following not in service - 002 006 007 008 011 014 016 020 023 024 027 028 029 030 031 033 036 037 039 042 043 046 047 050 051 103 106 109 111 113 122 123 125
197102 was swapped at Llanelli for 197117 - a strange place for a set swap! Also 197121 is showing on the Cambrian in error
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Four - 197024, 197029, 197030 & 197039 are on Cambrian testing/training (some of their workings do appear in the systems that feed RTT etc but usually not). So could argue those four could be counted as usable because they work AND their current workings will cease when the whole fleet is required.
It does not change things much and I do believe (fear) availabilty has a long way to go to reach the levels required for Cambrian passenger services to be switched over to the 197s' duties.
I agree. Availability is a concern. Yes four more on paper available but there will be around 62 or more diagrams required when they take over the Cambrian and the 231s replace the 197s on routes in South Wales.
Today I noticed one of the Pembroke Docks to Cardiff was a 150 vice 197. I don't know which other diagrams were short formed or subbed as there is meant to be about 49 diagrams.
Good estimate there! There are 62 diagrams, 17 Cambrian, 25 197/0 non ERTMS and 20 197/1 in the long term plan from December.
Today also has a 158 on the Crewe-Shrewsbury local and a very rare late night Manchester too on the end of that diagram.
Thank you!
A 158 going to Manchester is rare now. Even more rare would be seeing one to Swansea these days.
I expect the Cambrian changeover will happen regardless but same shot, different trains with continuing Cambrian short forms, intermediate set swaps or feeble excuses not to run to Birmingham, while Ebbw Vale to Newport, Blaenau F. and the Wrexham shuttle will get binned off whenever the CAFs have a duvet day.
Thats good to know. Do we know which units?
A quick look at RTT and about 21 x 2 car 17 x 3 car in service today (38 in total) which seems very low. A few were ECS as well which i included in the totals as they might go into service later.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Fingers crossed. I will guess within one week (based on previous releases from Crewe to Chester) for 197039 to enter service unless it has only gone to Chester with some sort of problem to sort out. I assumed 197039 would do a stint of normal passenger work sooner rather than later so as to get it over the last (and significant) bit of testing - exposure to passengers !.