What stations? I thought they were mostly straight
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Extremely loud train noise at St Pancras Thameslink
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zwk500
Veteran Member
Tottenham Court Road:
Crossrail’s Tottenham Court Road station construction ‘sufficiently finished’ | New Civil Engineer
Crossrail Ltd has confirmed that construction works has “sufficiently finished” and final commissioning activities can begin. It means the station is now
www.newcivilengineer.com
St Pancras curvature is a challenge, although Farringdon would be another level entirely.
Platform doors on the Paris Metro at Bastille Line 1, the sharpest curve on the whole system, shown here :
Illustration of Bastille station, taken from inside an automated...
Illustration of Bastille station, taken from inside an automated train on line 1 in Paris, France, on September 27, 2024.
zwk500
Veteran Member
Fundamentally, it should be technically possible to fit Platform Edge doors anywhere, because if they don't foul the loading gauge, the train should fit through.Platform doors on the Paris Metro at Bastille Line 1, the sharpest curve on the whole system, shown here :
Illustration of Bastille station, taken from inside an automated...
Illustration of Bastille station, taken from inside an automated train on line 1 in Paris, France, on September 27, 2024.www.gettyimages.co.uk
Curvature and vertical gradients make things harder because it makes securing accurate alignment harder (again, still possible), and you increase the gap between train and platform, increasing the risk of somebody slipping between the platform and train doors and being injured or even trapped.
These things can be designed for, the question is whether the cost of overcoming the challenges is worth it.
Farringdon platforms also get very narrow at certain points, so you may also potentially need to design a specially thin profile PED to ensure all doors are still usable. Another challenge to overcome, with it's price tag.
You'd also need to include the facility for the rear platform doors not to open if an 8-car is coming through, and allow for bi-di operation, although given Thameslink already has automatic door opening in the core, and presumably that's integrated in to the ETCS Balise groups, one would hope this is reasonably straightforward.
Deepgreen
Established Member
No-one has addressed/answered the earlier question about flange lubricators/greasers. Are these installed there, and, if not, why not - is there a technical reason why they can't be used?
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Only one platform I think (TCR?) and only a gentle curve. If it was tighter the gap between the screen doors and the train doors would be wider with a risk of someone getting trapped.
Deepgreen
Established Member
I wonder how they managed in Paris. albeit with shorter coaches, but on a very tight curve.
zwk500
Veteran Member
From the look of this picture: https://files.structurae.net/files/photos/2546/m01-bastille-cimg6054.jpg
By not putting doors too far round the tight bit of the curve. It's difficult to get a really good view of it but the images I've see so far suggest that the metro trains are mostly or completely on straight track when actually opening their doors.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
The trains don't go to the very end of the platform there, you are correct. From memory I'm not sure the really curvy bit even has any doors in it.
zwk500
Veteran Member
You can see in both the pictures on Wikipedia and here: https://structurae.net/en/structures/bastille-metro-station that the section of the platform edge screen around the curve doesn't have opening sections in it. The last set of doors is about level with the bridge girders.
It'd be interesting to know what the maximum permissible gap between the Platform and train doors is in the UK. City Thameslink is straight but with noticeable upwards gradients at either end so might be easier than Farringdon, with it's reverse curves and very narrow sections. However, this has got away from the topic of the noise at St Pancras somewhat, and Farringdon being open-air with a much higher roof suffers a lot less from that issue, so would be a lower priority for edge doors on the basis of noise reduction than St Pancras.
45669
Member
I'm not familiar with the term FLU's - can someone tell me what it means?
zwk500
Veteran Member
Full Length Unit - the 12-car Class 700s. 8-Cars are known as Restricted Length Unit (RLU). Class 700 stopping positions are marked FLU/RLU rather than the normal '12' or '8' stop boards.
45669
Member
Thanks; I would never have thought of that.
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
I asked this question in post #8
45669
Member
I did a bit of filming there myself last month and, although I didn't notice at the time, there are FLU signs in my footage:
boiledbeans2
Member
Platform doors on the Paris Metro at Bastille Line 1, the sharpest curve on the whole system, shown here :
Illustration of Bastille station, taken from inside an automated...
Illustration of Bastille station, taken from inside an automated train on line 1 in Paris, France, on September 27, 2024.
Also University station in Hong Kong, known for its curves and wide gaps.
Photo on page 3 of this platform gate installation press release PDF:
Quote from wiki:
Pre-platform gate installation photo, showing curve:
Jim the Jim
Member
Might platform edge doors give some passengers a false sense of security, and make them less likely to mind the gap?
edwin_m
Veteran Member
These wouldn't help with suppressing wheel-rail noise though. Nor would the half-height ones seen in the pictures of Bastille.
In effect the issue of wheel noise is naturally filed in the too difficult drawer at locations like St Pancras platforms A & B. Carrying simple ear defenders would seem a wise precaution for a genuine sufferer. Personally I find flange squeal more irritating than wheel howl, and flange squeal is far more common, especially where check rails are fitted.
Sorry, I posted in the wrong thread
Anecodtally I feel like it's gotten worse, but you're absolutely right that unless someone has actually been recording the noise levels, we can't rely on memory. What we can say though regardless is that it is very loud at the moment.
But I'm assuming there's no easy way to add some form of sound baffling/deadening anywhere in the platforms? (my noise cancelling headphones certainly earn their keep!)
Given that the squeal sound is form the wheel/track flange interface, the likelihood is that the 700s are quieter than the 319s as their bogies have shorter wheelbases.
I've not seen a 319 there either, but in my experience, the 700 can be extremely loud some days.
The noise changes due to the variation in the metal on metal interface, ie the state of the wear on the rail (which changes gradually over time) the state of wear on the wheels using it (which varies by train).
The noise will see a large change when the rails are periodically subject to grinding back to the correct profile, or renewal.
Stratford to Leyton eastbound on the Central line is so bad that there has to be a speed restriction.
As for Battersea, the noise levels are quite surprising considering it only opened a few years ago. You'd think a brand-new extension would be a bit better.