In m y experience, terminating up suburban trains at Wimbledon isn't as easy as it sounds. I had two such trains as a Guard: 1816 from Horsham, and 1826 from Shepperton. Both terminated at Wimbledon and then ecs to Wimbledon Park Each one had two minutes waiting time in platform 5 before the scheduled departure to the depot. All well and good you may think, but in practice, persuading passengers waiting on p5 that this train was not going to Waterloo is one obstacle to overcome, and he second is informing startled passengers already on the train, that they had to alight here, and no, this train is timetabled to terminate at Wimbledon, it was never a Waterloo train. With 8EPB it could easily take 10 minutes to do this. Even after the introduction of 508/455 rolling stock, you could make announcements en route that this train terminates at Wimbledon, and 'All change' when it got there, you sill had to check you weren't going to carry passengers into the Depot. The fun continued after you got the train away from Wimbledon, the route into the depot was via the Carriage Washing Machine., so make sure all the windows are closed! I don't think there will be a 'please explain' letter coming if I admit now, that I did once carry two passengers into Wimb;ledon Park Depot from the Shepperton trai. I gave them a firm telling off, before they climbed down from the treain and I escorted them to Wimbledon Park Station via the foot crossing 'Don't touch any rail' and left them to explain their unticketed presence to the LT staff at Wimbledon.
Fine until Preston-Lancs is blocked and the unit is stabled at Barrow overnight though
Similarly 5K65 2230 Manchester Piccadilly - Crewe CS via Warrington.
Fine until Preston-Lancs is blocked and the unit is stabled at Barrow overnight though
This one i happen to know Chiltern considered converting to passenger service as a way of filling gaps in service at the inner London stations West Ruislip, Northolt Park and Sudbury Hill Harrow where there is a 85 minute gap in the afternoon (15:46-17:09 West Ruislip) instead of the regular 1tph, but i believe to insert the extra stops would have it arrive a Marylebone later such that there would be 8 consecutive trains arriving into Marylebone on minimum headway (4 mins) with associated conflicting movements as well at Neasden Junction and Marylebone station throat. And so i believe they must have deemed it too great a performance risk to convert to passenger service.
Yes, the practicalities of terminating at Wimbledon on the up did come to mind when writing my post. Of course, it does happen regularly on Sunday mornings when up Cobham services terminate there, but every time I have worked those services it's always chaos. I imagine it'd be far worse towards the tail end of the evening peak.
Apart from this and the operational flexibility argument, there is also a very important customer relations point, in that once you convert an ECS into a passenger service, you have to be very careful removing it from the timetable should future diagrams change as people may have formed new travel habits, accepted new job offers, etc, relying on that service, and if it is at the ends of the day there may not be earlier/later viable alternatives for them (even if you lay on replacement buses as they can be significantly slower), hence it might make more sense to keep them as ECS even if a full crew is onboard.
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With a bonus of some rare track for early birds, the South connecting line.
You're right, it can be (and usually is) chaos, but fortunatlely not for long. It should work, but you can't plan for passengers behavior. bb21 mentioned passengers habits in his post #43. P5 at Wimbledon is where you catch a train to Waterloo, so it's not surprising that the odd terrminator causes confusion. Veering off topic, in the days when p6 wasn't fenced off, it was common to lose time as large numbers attempted to board the carriages at the front of the train,on p5 on;y for an anncouncement 'the next train from platform 6 will be for Waterloo only'. . The peoplke who had managed to board on p5 decided that it was more fun to stand shoulder to shoulder in a fast train so delaying the train in p5 even moreThat's life for you I supoposed!
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A fair point. Thanks
Lowestoft last had a traincrew depot in the very early 1990s. Trains run via Norwich to either drop the guard off, swap drivers or to attach to another 755. Understandable they run as ECS on weekdays but considering the service gap I’m not sure why it doesn’t operate in passenger service on a Sunday.Theres a couple of good contenders on the GA network:
This one goes ECS at 07:38 Liverpool Street to Wickford to form the 08:16 to Southminster. Running it in service fron Liverpool Street would provide direct connnectivity from London to the likes of burnham on crouch and would remove the need to lock the train out of service at Liverpool StreetRealtime Trains | 5J10 0738 London Liverpool Street to Wickford | 14/10/2026
Real-time train running information for 5J10 0738 departure from London Liverpool Street to Wickford on 14/10/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
The 06:48 and 07:35 Wickford to Southminster services come ECS from Ilford depot so could probably run in service from Shenfield. These are DOO so no extra crew needed.
This one from Walton-on-the-Naze to Colchester even runs via Colchester Town and would connect into a clacton service st Thorpe-le-sokenRealtime Trains | 5F65 1936 Walton-on-the-Naze to Colchester | 14/10/2026
Real-time train running information for 5F65 1936 departure from Walton-on-the-Naze to Colchester on 14/10/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
This one on a sunday morning would give an earlier service to the Walton-on-Naze branch from ClactonRealtime Trains | 5N03 0758 Clacton-on-Sea to Walton-on-the-Naze | 18/10/2026
Real-time train running information for 5N03 0758 departure from Clacton-on-Sea to Walton-on-the-Naze on 18/10/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
Meanwhile up on the Wherry Lines 5D26 at 22:40 from Lowestoft to Norwich Crown Point which runs via Norwich station would, if run in service, neatly fill in a 2 hour gap in Lowestoft to Norwich services on a Sunday evening (21:47 - 23:35).
Not sure if that one has a guard onboard or not. Does Lowestoft have a traincrew depot?Realtime Trains | 5D96 2240 Lowestoft to Norwich C.Pt. T.&R.S.M.D | 18/10/2026
Real-time train running information for 5D96 2240 departure from Lowestoft to Norwich C.Pt. T.&R.S.M.D on 18/10/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
Worst excuse I’ve ever heard. That’s just petty from the train companies.
Though it’s not just the cost. Elsewhere (on the North Wales Coast thread) people are complaining about TfW starting a service without enough resources) What would be the reaction if they launched a service that couldn’t run three days a week (variable), ran early on another 1 and was diverted on some of the others, taking twice as long as advertised. OK - that’s an extreme, but to be advertised it’s got to be predictable.
From what I have been able to establish, the current position is likely to remain in the December 2026 timetable.
It's not when the DfT are constantly breathing down their necks to keep costs down.
Also in SE land these ones, which are contra-peak flow between two up passenger services and take almost as long as stopping services:
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Is this actually a rule? Of course a bus should be provided to replace the train but I have see seen a few instances of early morning trains being cancelled for engineering works and not being replaced by a bus, just hoping that people move onto the train that is a few hours later.
Certainly first and last connections must be possible, I thought every train had to be replaced
These do seem to make sense, especially from an equity POV, as this is an underserved region which needs better connections. And surely there is some local demand (eg St Austell into Truro) for early services for work.GWR have 2 long distance ECS moves from Laira depot in Plymouth down the Cornish Mainline to Penzance on a Saturday morning.
Realtime Trains | 3C12 0620 Laira T.& R.S.M.D. to Penzance | 17/10/2026
Real-time train running information for 3C12 0620 departure from Laira T.& R.S.M.D. to Penzance on 17/10/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.At least one of these really ought to run in service from Plymouth to Penzance given the 2.5 hour gap in service from Plymouth to Penzance on a Saturday morning, on a line that notionally has a 2tph service.Realtime Trains | 3A82 0635 Laira T.& R.S.M.D. to Penzance | 17/10/2026
Real-time train running information for 3A82 0635 departure from Laira T.& R.S.M.D. to Penzance on 17/10/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
First passenger service arrival at Penzance from Plymouth is at 07:07, next arrival (ignoring the sleeper which is set down only in cornwall) is at 09:35 from Exeter. Between then these 2 ECS moves arrive at Penzance from Laira at 08:37 and 08:47 respectively.
