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Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

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RailUK Forums

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quantinghome

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1 Jun 2013
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zwk500 said:
This thread has the approximate phasing (caveats about timescales noted):

ETCS Rollout on Transpennine Route Upgrade

Hi all, Recently just got the results back from an FOI from Network Rail about the specifics and timelines for ETCS rollout across the TRU. Thought it might be of interest to some! https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ertms_timeline_and_data_as_part It includes a map of where ETCS will be...
www.railforums.co.uk www.railforums.co.uk
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Interesting detail in the link. So ETCS will not be implemented on the immediate approaches to Leeds station itself - that will still be lineside signals. Hence increasing the speed from Leeds to Marsh Lane gives a reduction in headway.
 
I

Ian Hardy

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quantinghome said:
The line around Neville Hill is being realigned for a higher speed. From Marsh Lane to Neville Hill the linespeed is being increased by 20mph. Some of the bridges between Marsh Lane and Leeds station are being replaced to enable faster speeds as well. Quite how this translates to improved capacity I don't know - I presume that improving linespeed on approaches to busy stations gives you a fair bit of capacity improvement as you clear the signal sections quicker and can reduce headways. Even a 30 second reduction would count for quite a lot. Then there's the ETCS signalling as well.
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This is a screenshot (08:01) of a PWI presentation on TRU dated 27 Sept 2024 hosted on YouTube:

The graph shows that at 15mph it takes a train 4 minutes to do one mile, at 30 mph it only takes a train 2 minutes to do one mile, so increasing the speed limit by 15mph cuts the journey time in half, which is why the small speed increases improves capacity a lot more than higher speed limit increases.

1780343400511.png
 
I

IanXC

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GRALISTAIR said:
Scheme E2,3,4 (basically Leeds- Church Fenton) has the following benefit I forgot about.

This scheme enables the closure of multiple level crossings
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I believe the programme included closure of them all, but that Copmanthorpe is still outstanding.
 
59CosG95

59CosG95

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erikvd28 said:
Are there plans to close Berry Brow crossing?
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Not as far as I believe, no. I don't believe it's on the main Huddersfield-Leeds corridor, so it probably won't.
IanXC said:
I believe the programme included closure of them all, but that Copmanthorpe is still outstanding.
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Copmanthorpe's been through the mill a bit IIRC; the original plan to replace the crossing with a stepped footbridge met with a few complaints about accessibility. The first attached PDF is what was originally proposed, the second concerns the council's objections to the dedicated TWAO.

The TWAO: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...rks-act-order#full-publication-update-history
And a Beeb link to the plans being dropped: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-67618683
 

Attachments

  • 22_01988_PAP18-PROPOSED_PLAN_AND_ELEVATIONS-2520824.pdf
    3.2 MB · Views: 56
  • inq-07_city_of_york_council_opening.pdf
    117.4 KB · Views: 21
T

Tim_UK

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erikvd28 said:
Are there plans to close Berry Brow crossing?
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Just to clarify that you mean Berry Brow near Manchester. Between Ashton-under-lyne and Manchester victoria. Which is nowhere near Berry Brow station, near Huddersfied.

The line speed increases on this line were done several years ago. I think some footpath level crossings were removed.
 
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fat_boy_pete

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The Ham said:
40 miles in 41 minutes puts it on a par with journey times with Basingstoke to Waterloo (the fastest do 45 miles in 42 minutes - yes that's sightly faster but it only stops at Woking, those which also stop at Clapham Junction take around 47 minutes).



Indeed, in public transport modeling the rough guide is that people will generally factor 1/2 the frequency as the "delay" that they will encounter by using a service - they might not ever suffer that "delay" but it's a factor and quite significant in how long they feel a journey is.

That means that on an hourly service 30 minutes of "delay", so if the traveling time is 50 minutes, the total perceived journey is 80 minutes.

If you reduce the journey by 10 minutes, you're still taking of the total being 70 minutes.

If you increase frequency to 2tph the "delay" reduces to 15 minutes and so the total (without journey time improvements) becomes 65 minutes.

Also improve the journey time by 10 minutes and the total is 55 minutes.

The one complication in that is that if you can get to 3tph or better than usage significantly improves as timetables become slightly irrelevant as people will start to just turn up for the next service as the delay of only just missing a service becomes small enough to be fairly insignificant.

Obviously, whilst that starts at 3tph, the more frequent the better as more people will be willing to just turn up.
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TfL research shows that at 12 minute frequency (5 services an hour) people perceive a service as truly 'turn up and go'. In other words that don't worry about any timetable and simply rely on the service.
 
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erikvd28

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Tim_UK said:
Just to clarify that you mean Berry Brow near Manchester. Between Ashton-under-lyne and Manchester victoria. Which is nowhere near Berry Brow station, near Huddersfied.

The line speed increases on this line were done several years ago. I think some footpath level crossings were removed.
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Yes the one near Ashton under Lyne
 
N

nr758123

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erikvd28 said:
Are there plans to close Berry Brow crossing?
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Tim_UK said:
Just to clarify that you mean Berry Brow near Manchester. Between Ashton-under-lyne and Manchester victoria. Which is nowhere near Berry Brow station, near Huddersfied.

The line speed increases on this line were done several years ago. I think some footpath level crossings were removed.
Click to expand...

erikvd28 said:
Yes the one near Ashton under Lyne
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This is the one at Clayton Bridge. I didn't know it as Berry Brow.

As I recall, it's on a steep hill where replacing it with a road bridge would not be practicable. Were it to be closed to traffic, any alternative road route would be several miles.
 
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Geeves

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I've never known it to be much of an issue. If TRU wanted an easy win on the NW side they should look at Astley Level crossing on the Chat Moss. Again it was broken yesterday causing horrendous delays for trains going hundreds of miles away
 
darylyates17

darylyates17

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Geeves said:
I've never known it to be much of an issue. If TRU wanted an easy win on the NW side they should look at Astley Level crossing on the Chat Moss. Again it was broken yesterday causing horrendous delays for trains going hundreds of miles away
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I wonder if the limit could be upped to 90 on the Chat Moss section or will works be required Ashley crossing being replaced with a bridge would allow the 60 limit to be removed.
 
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YorkshireBear

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darylyates17 said:
I wonder if the limit could be upped to 90 on the Chat Moss section or will works be required Ashley crossing being replaced with a bridge would allow the 60 limit to be removed.
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Much of the Chat Moss is 60mph due to the 'Moss', i.e. ground conditions.
 
LNW-GW Joint

LNW-GW Joint

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darylyates17 said:
Thought it was something to do with that but it’s 75 not 60, 60 is only for the crossing itself.
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It's 90 west of Astley, 60 at Astley itself, then 75 towards Manchester.
In the old days it was 75 generally, with 60 over an extended section between Astley and the M60 bridge.
 
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Geeves

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Same as others I was under the impression the slower speed was purely down to the crossing, is there a bit of a curve in the western direction too so you don't see the crossing till later?
 
GRALISTAIR

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Geogregor

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josh-j

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The window design looks nice. I'm pleased that it isn't a plain box, cost cut to oblivion!
 
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neil65

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A few more photos from the new footbridge at Huddersfield showing the new views that have been opened up which were impossible in the past
The footbridge has opened up a lot of new views which were impossible in the past, view facing East
railway-photography.smugmug.com

The view from the footbridge of the new platform extensions facing East

railway photographs from the last 100 years
railway-photography.smugmug.com railway-photography.smugmug.com
railway-photography.smugmug.com

The footbridge has opened up a lot of new views which were impossible in the past, view facing East

railway photographs from the last 100 years
railway-photography.smugmug.com railway-photography.smugmug.com
view facing the old Warehouse and the new platforms still being built
railway-photography.smugmug.com

The footbridge has opened up a lot of new views which were impossible in the past, view facing the old Warehouse and the new platforms still being built

railway photographs from the last 100 years
railway-photography.smugmug.com railway-photography.smugmug.com

Neil
 
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Tim_UK

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S101 said:
That's what I thought, but apparently it'll be ok. That aside, I don't get it. What's with the zigzag windows, what does it add other than to annoy the cleaners, and a bigger price tag.
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It means that kids watching trains don't get in the way of the main people flow.
 
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