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Trivia: Oldest intercity trains by country

StephenHunter

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Don't DB Class 218s work IC services to Westerland? The main batch is 1971-1979.

Also, Corails in France are still in use on a number of services, such as couchettes and Ouigo.
 
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MarcVD

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The oldest belgian stock in use today is a series of 40 (originally 44, but there have been a few casualties, mainly from fires) 4- car EMUs built in 1975-77. Today they work mostly locals, including one going hourly to Rosendaal in the Netherlands. Most of their services are around Antwerp, but they are maintained in Charleroi, so occasionally they work an IC service Charleroi - Antwerp to reach their maintenance facility without needing a dead move. They have been refurbished quite extensively and are expected to stay till 2030 or so, when the new AM30 stock will enter revenue service. Their age is showing : serial DC motors, thyristor controls, bench seating in second class, no air conditioning, manual couplers. But they make quite an impression when they run in 3 units formations. And 55 years of service, not so bad...
 

Richard Scott

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Also, Corails in France are still in use on a number of services, such as couchettes and Ouigo.
Corails still on some IC work, fairly sure still a number work out of Paris Austerlitz. Also the BB7200 locos are still at work, oldest one on IC work is 7230 dating from April 1977 although older ones still on TER (regional) work; sure 7203, dating from November 1976, still going.
 

eldomtom2

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Having done some research, as far as I can tell the oldest intercity rolling stock in South Korea are a small number of 1996-built loco-hauled coaches.
 

mountainpixel

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Thanks. What's the coach type they use that would be 1960-vintage? I'm not familiar with all the names of the Scandinavian coaches.
Here are some pictures of an A2 carriage on a Tågab service. They are from the 60s and feel like a time capsule. All wooden inside, the most comfortable seats I've ever sat on, amazingly smooth ride and no central door looking. If you ever wondered what luxurious travel in the past must have been like, book a seat on these amazing trains. This 3-hour trip costs around 30 pound.

While there are older coaches, I would argue that these one "feel" among the oldest as they have been refurbished to retain their old character and are not just old or run down because of a lack of investment.
 

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AndrewE

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That's actually from the period between German reunification in 1990 and the DB/DR merger in 1994. Very interesting!
and even more remarkable is that they seem to have plated over the doors on one side of each coach. (see https://www.vagonweb.cz/fotogalerie/RO/CFR/WLABmee-7131?f=2026est) I've never seen this arrangement (apart from maybe on the Glasgow Underground!)
I guess the logic is that sleeping cars have few occupants and make fewer stops, and you can marshal the coaches so the doors are on alternate sides so an attendant then has just 1 door to supervise for 2 coaches. I couldn't see HMRI approving of it...
 

Watershed

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Thanks again all.

Having done some research, as far as I can tell the oldest intercity rolling stock in South Korea are a small number of 1996-built loco-hauled coaches.
Do you have any details on these? I can't find much online.

Here are some pictures of an A2 carriage on a Tågab service. They are from the 60s and feel like a time capsule. All wooden inside, the most comfortable seats I've ever sat on, amazingly smooth ride and no central door looking. If you ever wondered what luxurious travel in the past must have been like, book a seat on these amazing trains. This 3-hour trip costs around 30 pound.

While there are older coaches, I would argue that these one "feel" among the oldest as they have been refurbished to retain their old character and are not just old or run down because of a lack of investment.
Wow, that looks incredible! I shall have to check it out the next time I'm in Sweden.
 

Farang

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Here are some pictures of an A2 carriage on a Tågab service. They are from the 60s and feel like a time capsule. All wooden inside, the most comfortable seats I've ever sat on, amazingly smooth ride and no central door looking. If you ever wondered what luxurious travel in the past must have been like, book a seat on these amazing trains. This 3-hour trip costs around 30 pound.

While there are older coaches, I would argue that these one "feel" among the oldest as they have been refurbished to retain their old character and are not just old or run down because of a lack of investment.
Those interiors are gorgeous.
 

StephenHunter

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and even more remarkable is that they seem to have plated over the doors on one side of each coach. (see https://www.vagonweb.cz/fotogalerie/RO/CFR/WLABmee-7131?f=2026est) I've never seen this arrangement (apart from maybe on the Glasgow Underground!)
I guess the logic is that sleeping cars have few occupants and make fewer stops, and you can marshal the coaches so the doors are on alternate sides so an attendant then has just 1 door to supervise for 2 coaches. I couldn't see HMRI approving of it...
That's standard for sleepers in general in Europe. The Type Fs that operated in the UK also had doors at one end, with the other containing the attendant's office and a small stove for heating.
 

Jealgu

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I am personally a big fanof the ab3 carriages. They have a very interesting setup. The middle chairs of the first class saloon part cab turn. I added pictures of both the Tagab amd Snalltaget version.

Both first and srcond class types also run in Bosnia. Their maintsnence is a bit lacking.

For anyone interested in the various carriages types I recommend jafnvag.net. It is in Swedish, but with translate it is easy to figure out.
 

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AndrewE

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That's standard for sleepers in general in Europe. The Type Fs that operated in the UK also had doors at one end, with the other containing the attendant's office and a small stove for heating.
Thanks, I hadn't realised that. Back in the day when we used overnight trains we were focussed on the couchette cars - or even finding empty seated compartments!
 
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jamesontheroad

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Late last year, the Swedish railway news site järnvägar.nu published an article about the renovation of SJ's WL1 sleeping carriages, from 1964-65. This is a project that was announced in 2017, but dragged on due to issues with the procurement, the bids, the finances of one of the tendering companies, the pandemic, etc etc. According to another forum, there are now five in traffic, and they should be around for another 10-15 years.

From the article (my translation and emphasis):

“It is much more difficult to plan a conversion of older carriages than to build new trains,” says Lars Lindeby, technical project manager for the night carriage refurbishment at SJ. "Old carriages can look very different after all sorts of renovations over the years, and you don't know how extensive the rust is until you start dismantling them."

The oldest sleeping cars to be refreshed, the WL1s, were built in 1964-1965 and the drawings were incomplete.

“In some cases, we have had to go to the National Archives to find all the original drawings,” says Lars Lindeby.

SJ decided in June 2021 to have Euromaint refurbish the badly worn sleeping and couchette cars. The cost is estimated at 250-300 million SEK [€23-27.5 million].

...

“We have found rust damage around the windows in many carriages, mainly in the sleeping carriages from the 1960s,” says Lars Lindeby. “The workshops need to spend 400-500 working hours on rust removal per carriage.”

Only the 22 sleeping cars from the 1960s, which are still blue-black unlike the other all-black night train cars, will be repainted externally. Other improvements will only be painted on smaller areas.

“We had a really long wish list with everything we wanted to do with the night train carriages, and we had a bag of money,” says Lars Lindeby. “We checked off the wish list from the top with the most important measures, and when the money ran out, we had to draw a line. There was much more we would have liked to do with the money; there simply isn't enough for more than what we are doing now."

With the comprehensive renovation, it is estimated that the night train carriages will be able to remain in service for another 10-15 years.

At the time of the procurement, Euromaint were going to refurbish the following. Click for links to another great Swedish website (järnväg.net) for detailed info on carriage types:
  • 12 of 22 WL1 2nd class sleeping cars built 1964-1965, last refurbished in 1996-1997;
  • 21 WL4 1st class sleeping cars (with en-suite bathrooms) built 1990-1992;
  • 3 WL6 2nd class sleeping cars built 1993-1994;
  • 11 BC4 couchette cars built in 1985-1986.
 

railfan99

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Presumably Australia’s XPT warrants a mention?

'The Overland' - twice a week in each direction between Adelaide and Melbourne, and once an overnight sleeping and sitting car train but now a daytime run - has carriages that are older than the XPTs.
 

A S Leib

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'The Overland' - twice a week in each direction between Adelaide and Melbourne, and once an overnight sleeping and sitting car train but now a daytime run - has carriages that are older than the XPTs.
Ruled out as a (primarily) tourist service in post 1.
 
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Watershed

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Having been on it, I would say the Overland is probably mostly aimed at the tourist market, but like the Canadian it does provide a service to 'normal' passengers too and AFAIK it accepts regional subsidised fares too, which is probably the hallmark of a 'real' passenger service as opposed to a land cruise/luxury charter.
 

bahnause

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I had a combination of some of the newest stock (Nightjet, built 2025), mixed with some slightly tired looking ÖBB IC carriages from the 90s and the good
old (well, only old to be honest) SBB Re420
161 built in 1969. But equipped with ETCS.
 

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In the US, none of the "heritage" cars from the original passenger services that preceded Amtrak are left in service on Amtrak. The oldest equipment in normal Amtrak service are the former Metroliner cars now used as Cab control cars which were built around 1967.

The Piedmont service operated by Amtrak for the state of North Carolina does have its own state owned equipment that was originally built for the Kansas City Southern in the 1960s.
 

Beebman

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How old are the OBB IC coaches?
I've been wondering that too but as it happens I'll be doing some bashing in Austria next week and a little project I have planned is to attempt to investigate the ages of the two-tone grey OBB IC stock - are they all 1980s/90s build or are there any 1970s Eurofima examples still around? I'll note vehicle numbers and maybe try and find builders plates if time permits. All being well my findings will be reported here early next week. :)
 

Beebman

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The ones that are still in service with ÖBB are from the later 1980s and 1990s. The older ones have been sold.
Is there a website anywhere which lists individual ÖBB coaching stock vehicles? I've tried searching (in German) but I can't find anything.
 

riceuten

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The oldest belgian stock in use today is a series of 40 (originally 44, but there have been a few casualties, mainly from fires) 4- car EMUs built in 1975-77. Today they work mostly locals, including one going hourly to Rosendaal in the Netherlands. Most of their services are around Antwerp, but they are maintained in Charleroi, so occasionally they work an IC service Charleroi - Antwerp to reach their maintenance facility without needing a dead move. They have been refurbished quite extensively and are expected to stay till 2030 or so, when the new AM30 stock will enter revenue service. Their age is showing : serial DC motors, thyristor controls, bench seating in second class, no air conditioning, manual couplers. But they make quite an impression when they run in 3 units formations. And 55 years of service, not so bad...
These ? They probably looked quite swish in the 1970s

818-sncb-mt.jpg


That were transformed into these

de483abb74dc43de4ecf23f24c330030.jpg
 
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AY1975

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Germany (domestic) - 1971-1979, DB, class 218 locos. Also 1977-1980, DB, IC1 coaches (first-gen)
I suppose once the few remaining IC1 coaches finish (which I think is fairly soon) the oldest Intercity passenger-carrying stock left in Germany, at least as far as DB (as opposed to private operators such as Flixtrain) is concerned, will be the ICE1 sets.
 

MarcVD

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These ? They probably looked quite swish in the 1970s

818-sncb-mt.jpg


That were transformed into these

de483abb74dc43de4ecf23f24c330030.jpg
the-sncb-nmbs-am-75-8320.jpg
The red livery was their second one. Before that, as built, they were orange and grey. No other belgian train was painted like this.
 

Richard Scott

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These ? They probably looked quite swish in the 1970s

818-sncb-mt.jpg


That were transformed into these

de483abb74dc43de4ecf23f24c330030.jpg
Despite Belgian Railways classifying almost everything that doesn't stop at every blade of grass as an IC train, I'm not sure I would say these were IC trains.
 

43096

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Despite Belgian Railways classifying almost everything that doesn't stop at every blade of grass as an IC train, I'm not sure I would say these were IC trains.
In Belgium IC is a stopping pattern, not a quality indicator.
 

Richard Scott

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In Belgium IC is a stopping pattern, not a quality indicator.
That's what I was implying hence it doesn't really fit with my usual interpretation of an IC service and so stock not necessarily of what would be expected in many other countries on an IC service.
 

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