Trivia: Oldest intercity trains by country

[Watershed]

As per title - I thought it'd be interesting to see the oldest locomotives, coaches or units in use on regularly scheduled intercity services across different countries.

Obviously "intercity" is a bit of a subjective definition but if it's used on a service labelled as intercity, express, sleeper etc. or used on a long-distance service of perhaps at least 100 miles, I think it can count.

By "regularly scheduled" I mean timetabled trains that provide a genuine passenger service to residents of the country, at reasonable fares. I'm excluding heritage railways, charter trains or trains which primarily operate for tourism/land cruise purposes (e.g. most of Journey Beyond Rail's services). In most cases there would be some sort of seating option.

Starting with the UK, I imagine it will be the ScotRail HSTs, some such may date back to as early as 1975. The Bakerloo line trains are slightly older but these obviously aren't intercity in nature.

For Canada I would imagine it to be the Budd coaches used on The Canadian, constructed from 1954 onwards.

For the US I would imagine it's the Superliner coaches on various Amtrak long distance services, dating back from 1975.

For Switzerland I know that Re 4/4 locos are still used on some workings such as sleepers. These go back to 1964. I'm not entirely sure what the oldest passenger stock would be.

Obviously there will also be examples where it is just the locomotive that is older and not the coaches, or vice versa. Either would be interesting to know about.

Edit: Here’s a consolidated list of the answers people have come up with, ordered from oldest to newest:

Europe

• Sweden - 1942, Snälltåget, BC1 coaches (converted)
• Belgium/France/Netherlands/Czechia/Germany (international) - 1953-1954, European Sleeper, P coaches
• Portugal - 1962, CP, Sorefame coaches
• UK - 1962, Caledonian Sleeper, GBRf class 73 locos, or for coaches: 1975-1982, ScotRail, HSTs on Inter7City services
• Switzerland - 1964, SBB, Re 4/4 locos for domestic portion of some NightJet sleepers
• Romania - 1965, CFR, ex-German sleeper coaches on Bucuresti-Cluj Napoca/Baia Mare etc. sleepers
• Hungary - 1970-1971, MAV, ex-BD coaches on IC Budapest-Szeged and Bekescaba
• Germany (domestic) - 1971-1979, DB, class 218 locos. Also 1977-1980, DB, IC1 coaches (first-gen)
• Finland - 1973-1985, VR, Sr1 locomotives. Also 1979-1974, VR, CEmt sleeper coaches
• Belgium (domestic) - 1975-1977, SNCB, AM75 units on IC services (Charleroi-Antwerp for maintenance)
• France - 1975-1989, SNCF, Corail coaches on Intercités services. Also 1977-1985, SNCF, BB7200 locos on Intercités services (1976 examples on TER services)
• Austria - 1976-1980, ÖBB, Eurofima coaches (Bdmpz227 and Bhmpz228)
• Netherlands (domestic) - 1977, NS, “Koploper” units (ICMm coaches)
• Spain - 1992, Renfe, class 100 AVE trains
• Ireland - 1994-1996, IÉ / NIR, Enterprise sets

North America

• US:
  • Possibly 1950, Alaska Railroad, Pullman Standard coaches (unclear if used on non-tourist/excursion services)
  • Or 1953-1954, Amtrak, St Louis Carriage baggage/lounge coaches on the Piedmont
• Canada - 1947-1949, Via Rail, Budd “Galley” club car carriages on the Quebec-Windsor Corridor.

Asia

• Japan - 1977, Kintetsu Railway, 16000 series unit
• South Korea - 1996, Korean State Railway (Kukch'ŏl), loco hauled stock (type?)

Australasia

• Australia - 1981–1993, NSW Trainlink, XPTs

 

[jamesontheroad]

In Sweden, Tågab (Tågåkeriet i Bergslagen), have some ex-SJ carriages built as early as 1960. They offer less-than-daily service, usually Fridays and weekends, but on intercity routes. Info on different carriage types could be found on https://www.jarnvag.net/tagab

 

[Watershed]

In Sweden, Tågab (Tågåkeriet i Bergslagen), have some ex-SJ carriages built as early as 1960. They offer less-than-daily service, usually Fridays and weekends, but on intercity routes. Info on different carriage types could be found on https://www.jarnvag.net/tagab

Thanks. What's the coach type they use that would be 1960-vintage? I'm not familiar with all the names of the Scandinavian coaches.

 

[Gloster]

I think if you go to .jarnvag.net/tagab you will get a page in Swedish with photos.

 

[duesselmartin]

Germany still has some IC Stock dating from around 1980, although they will be withdrawn this year. Flixtrain stock, although heavily modernised, date back to the 1960s.
Austria also still has Eurofima stock from the late 1970s.

 

[etr221]

Wondering about the Alaska RR - some of their coaches seem to go back to 1950 (see https://alaskarails.org/fp/passenger/passenger-roster.html )

Amtrak appear to still have some Amfleet I (early 1970s) and converted Metroliner (late 1960s) cars, also some N Carolina DOT cars from the mid 1960s (https://on-track-on-line.com/amtk-roster-cars.shtml), which pre date the Superliners.

No idea what there is in Latin America.

 

[Jealgu]

The intercity trains from Budapest to Szeged and Bekescaba use partly BD coaches. These are from 1970/1971 and not much modernized. Imaround 2010 their interior got a new color, and recently buttons for automatic door opening were added. Although they officially run as express trains, those trains also have an ic part with more modern air-conditioned stock that have a mandatory reservation.

 

[Towers]

Presumably Australia’s XPT warrants a mention?

 

[Jealgu]

And if night trains count we have of course the former type p stainless steel body sleeping cars European Sleeper uses. Although they have been modernized quit a bit in the 90s. Same for the ab32 and ab33, though they are younger (60s or 70s I think). Romania uses old German sleeper cars from the 60s, they seem to run in their original state.

 

[Watershed]

Thanks, I’ve added all of those to a consolidated list above.

 

[jpl]

Finland: VR Class Sr1 locomotives were built in 1973-1985 and are still sometimes used on sleepers. Oldest stock currently on the sleepers include sleeper coaches of type CEmt built in 1979-1984 and motorail wagons of type Gfot built in 1974-1984.

 

[eldomtom2]

As far as I can tell the oldest operating express stock on Japanese railways is the sole remaining Kintetsu 16000 series two-car unit, built in 1977.

 

[Austriantrain]

Austria also still has Eurofima stock from the late 1970s.

I don’t track it, but I think that the remaining coaches are from later series and much newer.

 

[Jealgu]

In Sweden wl1 sleeper car is still used on Malmo Stockholm night train, similar to the 60s carriages of Tagab.

Snalltaget has, same as Tagab, also ba, a and ab carriages from the sixties. Their couchettes used on the Malmo Storlien are originally from the 40s though. You could, however, argue that this is a holiday train (but for instance European Sleeper also, I would guess, mainly transports holidayers).

 

[AlterEgo]

VIA Rail has some stock on the Quebec-Windsor corridor dating from 1947. I travelled on the OG, no.4000, a few months back.

List of Via Rail rolling stock - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Beebman]

I've taken a look at the German Drehscheibe forum and I've found an interesting post from a couple of weeks ago (16th May) which shows individual photos with numbers of each of the coaches in the formation of IC 2012 from Stuttgart to Dortmund (described by the poster as one of the remaining 'classic' IC trains):

https://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?031,11450131

The formation includes a Eurofima 1st Class coach (the second vehicle) which appears to have been originally built as a type Avmz 207 in 1977.

 

[StephenHunter]

And if night trains count we have of course the former type p stainless steel body sleeping cars European Sleeper uses. Although they have been modernized quit a bit in the 90s. Same for the ab32 and ab33, though they are younger (60s or 70s I think). Romania uses old German sleeper cars from the 60s, they seem to run in their original state.

Which Germany are they from?

 

[Jealgu]

West. They have two beths per cabin, and a shower room for the whole car, though I do not think those are still in use today. Interestingly they still contain stickers from DB itself.

vagonWEB » Fotogalerie » Rumunsko » CFR » WLABmee 71-31

www.vagonweb.cz

 

[ricohallo]

In the Netherlands the oldest intercity trains currently still in use are the iconic "Koploper" ICM units (now designated ICMm after an extensive refurbishment). The first of them entered service in 1977, however their numbers have been steadily shrinking in the past few years and those that are still in service have been built in the 80s and early 90s.

 

[StephenHunter]

West. They have two beths per cabin, and a shower room for the whole car, though I do not think those are still in use today. Interestingly they still contain stickers from DB itself.

vagonWEB » Fotogalerie » Rumunsko » CFR » WLABmee 71-31

www.vagonweb.cz

That's actually from the period between German reunification in 1990 and the DB/DR merger in 1994. Very interesting!

 

[Watershed]

Cheers for the further examples, duly added (where older).

I don’t track it, but I think that the remaining coaches are from later series and much newer.

Thanks. Any info you have on the approx. age would be appreciated.

In Sweden wl1 sleeper car is still used on Malmo Stockholm night train, similar to the 60s carriages of Tagab.

Snalltaget has, same as Tagab, also ba, an and ab carriages from the sixties. Their couchettes used on the Malmo Storlien are originally from the 40s though. You could, however, argue that this is a holiday train (but for instance European Sleeper also, I would guess, mainly transports holidayers).

Do you have the name/type code of the 40s couchettes you’re referring to? I can’t immediately find any details about them online.

 

[Jealgu]

Vagnguide - Liggvagn BC2 - järnväg.net

Guiden till Sveriges tåg och järnvägar. Se var olika bolag kör och med vilka tåg. Läs mer om järnvägarnas historia, trafik och stationer.

www.jarnvag.net

It seems they were originally seat cars reconstructed to couchettes in the seventies.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Portugal still has Soreframe stainless steel stock from the '60s (modernised in the '90s) in front-line service plus Corail versions from the '90s. Ex RENFE 'Arco' stock from the '90s is also in the process of being recommissioned. Not IC, but the Duoro line has Schindler stock from 1948!

I guess in Spain the oldest top flight stock is now the Cl 100 from 1992, built for the inagural LAV Madrid - Seville.

 

[Beebman]

Austria also still has Eurofima stock from the late 1970s.

ÖBB took delivery of a large fleet of Eurofima coaches in 1976-1980 and there's some still in service in the two-tone grey livery with red roofs and solebars. However a few years ago they sold a quantity of them to ČD where they were repainted into their blue livery.

I've found on VagonWeb an example of a long distance train currently using these coaches from both companies, it's EC206/7 'Porta Moravica', Graz-Kraków and v.v. - here's their formations northbound and southbound. There's 5 Eurofima vehicles out of the 7 used in the full formation (the Austrian pair only run south of Bohumín), types Amz138, Bhmpz228, Bdmpz227, Bmpz73 and Bmz73.

 

[Austriantrain]

ÖBB took delivery of a large fleet of Eurofima coaches in 1976-1980 and there's some still in service in the two-tone grey livery with red roofs and solebars. However a few years ago they sold a quantity of them to ČD where they were repainted into their blue livery.

I've found on VagonWeb an example of a long distance train currently using these coaches from both companies, it's EC206/7 'Porta Moravica', Graz-Kraków and v.v. - here's their formations northbound and southbound. There's 5 Eurofima vehicles out of the 7 used in the full formation (the Austrian pair only run south of Bohumín), types Amz138, Bhmpz228, Bdmpz227, Bmpz73 and Bmz73.

The Bmpz73 and Bmz73 at least are much younger than 1980, although obviously somewhat long in the tooth by now (late 1980s and beginning 1990s). ÖBB bought „Eurofima-like“ coaches much longer than other national railways. The other coaches you mentioned are Czech ones. I think all ÖBB coaches from the original Eurofima series have been sold on or otherwise put out of service.

 

[Beebman]

The Bmpz73 and Bmz73 at least are much younger than 1980, although obviously somewhat long in the tooth by now (late 1980s and beginning 1990s). ÖBB bought „Eurofima-like“ coaches much longer than other national railways. The other coaches you mentioned are Czech ones. I think all ÖBB coaches from the original Eurofima series have been sold on or otherwise put out of service.

I'm certainly no expert on Czech rolling stock but I've seen a few references to ČD buying ÖBB Eurofima vehicles in the 2010s. One page I've come across is this one in the Czech language:

https://www.alanbutschek.cz/rady/rada_b_pty_nov.htm

I've had to use Google Translate but for types Bdmpz227 and Bhmpz228 it says they were all originally built by SGP Simmering, SGP Graz, FIAT Turin in 1977-1978 and in 2014 ČD published a notice of a contract for the modernization of 22 Bmz series cars purchased from the ÖBB railway administration. Among them 9 became Bdmpz227 and another 9 became Bhmpz228, the latter with wheelchair space. I've seen a few German model railway pages which all appear to confirm that these two types were originally ÖBB Eurofima vehicles.

 

[Austriantrain]

I'm certainly no expert on Czech rolling stock but I've seen a few references to ČD buying ÖBB Eurofima vehicles in the 2010s. One page I've come across is this one in the Czech language:

https://www.alanbutschek.cz/rady/rada_b_pty_nov.htm

I've had to use Google Translate but for types Bdmpz227 and Bhmpz228 it says they were all originally built by SGP Simmering, SGP Graz, FIAT Turin in 1977-1978 and in 2014 ČD published a notice of a contract for the modernization of 22 Bmz series cars purchased from the ÖBB railway administration. Among them 9 became Bdmpz227 and another 9 became Bhmpz228, the latter with wheelchair space. I've seen a few German model railway pages which all appear to confirm that these two types were originally ÖBB Eurofima vehicles.

Quite likely that you are right. Just wanted to point out that ÖBB does not have any coaches of that generation left in service.

 

[sk688]

The Enterprise sets in Ireland date back to 1994/1996 although they do use MK3 Generator vans from the 80s

Suppose that may be cheating somewhat

 

[alistairlees]

For the UK surely the 73s used on Caledonian Sleeper, and originally dating (in the oldest case) from 1962 would count? The oldest GWR 57/6 is from 1964.

 

[Watershed]

All also added, thanks. Where there are different ages for the oldest locos and coaches I've added both to the list.