Keep getting penalty fares for fictional people!

[James Forridge]

Initially I received a letter demanding a £20 penalty fare for a journey on the train. Firstly I wasn't even on the train that day and secondly I am not the person the letter was addressed to, so I returned the letter by writing 'return to sender' on the envelope and putting a stamp on it. I thought they would leave me alone, but today I received two (separate) letters addressed to that same person whom I assume is fictional and a second different person who's name just happens to rhyme with the first (don't know if that has any significance but it sounds like it's been made up). Now in each of those two letters they're demanding £40 i.e. a total of £80, all for a train journey I didn't even make. Now I've written a letter to say I am not this person but haven't included my actual name because I just don't trust them and I bet they'll just address it to me, making it harder to prove I wasn't the person or people on the train.

I was wondering what you guys think I should do? I just want these people to leave me alone and stop sending letters threatening prosecution unless I pay them the money. I've called the police and they couldn't' really offer any advice other than to try and contact them but it seems that they just don't care anyway and want the money whether I made the journey or not. The whole things seems rediculous and surely they would realise something is up if they are sending two penalty notices to two different people for making two journeys from and to the same station on the same day?

edit: forgot to say, it's the www.penaltyfares.co.uk people that are demanding the money.

 

[First class]

Not your name, don't worry about them.

Keep returning them in the post marked "NOT AT THIS ADDRESS - RETURN TO SENDER".

You're under no obligation to do anything.

You don't need to speak to anybody about this.

This assumes that you are telling the truth and you didn't give a fictional name.

You are potentially committing a criminal offence by opening mail addressed for somebody else though, and not continuing to return it, so stop it! (Postal Services Act 2000 / Post Office Act 1908 S.54)

 

[First class]

I must remember to stop opening mail to Anthony, as that could get myself (Antony) in trouble

... without reasonable excuse, he opens a postal packet which he knows or reasonably suspects has been incorrectly delivered to him...

I'm sure that it is reasonable in your case.

 

[bluenoxid]

You do not need to waste money on stamps if you are returning to sender.

 

[tony_mac]

You are committing a criminal offence by opening mail addressed for somebody else though, so stop it! (Post Office Act 1908 S.54)

Not without intent to injure, you aren't.

 

[James Forridge]

Not without intent to injure, you aren't.

That's what I read. If the person is fictional surely that's another reason why it wouldn't be illegal, as well as the fact that it's being sent to my property.

Thans for your help guys. I'll just keep returning their letters.

You do not need to waste money on stamps if you are returning to sender.

Even if it's been opened?

 

[Wath Yard]

I would ring them, it is easier to explain and if the person you speak to cannot or will not help you you always have the option of requesting to speak to a manager.

It wasn't railway related but a previous resident was fraudulently using a previous address of mine and I returned the letters as 'Gone Away'. However, the organisation concerned completely ignored that and kept sending letters. One quick phone call sorted it out.

 

[bluenoxid]

Post have been deleted on this thread. I am removing mine as well.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Whether or not it's sent to your property it's a good idea not to open things that aren't addressed to you. Keep returning them to sender and they'll get the picture. If not, ring them.

 

[bluenoxid]

Please do not send anything that will easily disintegrate like powdery substances. It breaks the machines and gives certain people soreheads.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Please do not send anything that will easily disintegrate like powdery substances. It breaks the machines and gives certain people soreheads.

Especially when you end up getting the whole office block evacuated, inner and outer cordons set up and CBRN teams, HART and SORT mobilised!

 

[bluenoxid]

Post have been deleted on this thread. I am removing mine as well.

 

[bluenoxid]

Post have been deleted on this thread. I am removing mine as well.

 

[Squaddie]

No dont do that and ignore some of the stupid advice you have been given.

My friend the alarm bells should be ringing so loud inside your head. Your identity has been stolen, and by returning letters all you are doing is allowing your address to become associated with fraud and running a high risk blowing away your credit rating to boot.

Not necessarily. Had the OP's identity been stolen the letters would have been addressed to him; however, the letters are addressed to someone who doesn't live at the property, so it looks as though someone has simply given a false name and random address to a revenue protection officer.

 

[bluenoxid]

Post have been deleted on this thread. I am removing mine as well.

 

[Temple Meads]

Not necessarily. Had the OP's identity been stolen the letters would have been addressed to him; however, the letters are addressed to someone who doesn't live at the property, so it looks as though someone has simply given a false name and random address to a revenue protection officer.

That's how it looks to me as well.

 

[RJ]

A quick search shows this 023 8072 8950 as their phone no.

Edit: That appears to be an old no that isn't used any more.

You won't find a number for IRCAS that allows you to speak to a person in the public domain. I have spoken to their helpdesk numerous times and they definitely don't deal with the general public.

 

[Old Timer]

Not necessarily. Had the OP's identity been stolen the letters would have been addressed to him; however, the letters are addressed to someone who doesn't live at the property, so it looks as though someone has simply given a false name and random address to a revenue protection officer.

Repeated "random" i.e lucky chance address ?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Finding an address on Google Maps, memorising it, and giving that and a fake name is a pretty popular tactic amongst students at the moment.

 

[First class]

Repeated "random" i.e lucky chance address ?

Or perhaps OP has gave false names and chickens now coming home and all?

Just another possibility...

After all, how many people can recite your address and postcode to an RPI quick enough to appear genuine??

If he is legit and these letters are nothing to do with him, then there is absolutely nothing to worry about. Just keep sending them back to the TOC/company, unopened.

No civil/criminal action can be taken against you/your belongings if you aren't responsible for the Penalty Fares.

Whether you speak to TOCs or not, they won't pay any attention to you!

 

[Olympian]

The PenaltyFares website gives the following advice in this situation:

Q. I have received correspondence at my address but the person does not live here.
A. If you have received a letter at your address, and the person named on the letter does not live at your address, then DO NOT OPEN THE LETTER. It is not addressed to you and you break the law if you open someone else's mail. You must return it to the post office by writing on the envelope "not at this address" and putting it unopened in any post box. (No stamp required)

 

[tony_mac]

The debt is attached to your address anyway so unless you are trying to do anything soon you are throwing money.

I'm not sure what this is supposed to say - but you can easily enough get a copy of your credit file.
It won't usually include anyone with a different surname, unless they have linked them for some reason.

That's how it looks to me as well.

Indeed - identity theft usually involves stealing an 'identity', and not just an address.

However, it still needs to be dealt with - if it were ever to get that far (and its a long way off) dealing with bailiffs is still a lot of hassle even if they have the wrong person.

 

[James Forridge]

Or perhaps OP has gave false names and chickens now coming home and all?

It would be kind of pointless for me to come on here and ask for advice then, since I would be bang to rights.

 

[Wath Yard]

You won't find a number for IRCAS that allows you to speak to a person in the public domain. I have spoken to their helpdesk numerous times and they definitely don't deal with the general public.

I think I might. This thread is probably worth reading, not for some of the stupid advice and whining of people getting caught without tickets, but it does give phone numbers, one person even offers the mobile phone no of the manager.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=228562

 

[bluenoxid]

Post have been deleted on this thread. I am removing mine as well.

 

[First class]

No DCA will apply for a CCJ on a Penalty Fare!

 

[michael769]

I'm a bit confused though. How can they affect my credit score if they haven't taken me to court and I haven't been given a CCJ?

They cannot unless they are a licensed (by the OFT) provider or consumer credit and you (or someone purporting to be you) has entered into a valid consumer credit contract and the lender has opened a payment performance record.

Without the above the only way they can get to your credit record is if they have a CCJ and you fail to comply with the terms of the CCJ.

But there are separate fraud databases (run by CIFAS and Insurance Hunter), and this sort of thing can get a marker put on your address which can cause all sorts of problems with both lenders and insurers. You may wish to check with them to see what they have on your address - if there is a problem you can arrange for a Notice of Dissociation to be placed on the account.

 

[Fare-Cop]

The advice given by the PF administration is spot-on.

DO NOT OPEN THE LETTER, it isn't addressed to you.

Mark it 'Not known at this address - return to sender' and put back in the post.

You might try calling the IRCAS numbers given by the poster on MSE, but you'll probably be asked to put your concerns in writing and send as a letter, thereby making more unnecessary work and expense for yourself in the long run. Don't bother would be my advice.

In the OPs case, the letter isn't in his or her name so nothing to worry about although it's worth noting that unpaid Penalty Fares can end up getting prosecuted, but not for the unpaid PF and it's heard in a Magistrates Court, not a County Court. This has nothing to do with CCJs.

The Summons will allege either a breach of Byelaw, or a charge of Fare Evasion and that will be alleged against the person named on the numbered Notice, not the OP.

Any prosecutor who issues summonses against a name & address where the notice has been returned marked 'N/K' will need to have very good evidence that supports their belief that the traveller has been correctly identified and that is very rare.

It has happened and I have experienced an instance such as that described by another poster where a false name had been used as a ploy to attempt to avoid a liability. Mind you, that particular 'numbskull' gave a false name at the top of the notice, but when the inspector asked him to sign the notice, he used his own normal signature!!

If it genuinely has nothing to do with you, send it back as instructed by IRCAS and forget about it.

 

[richw]

I checked the website and there's no telephone number whatsoever. I guess the only option is to return the letters to the sender.

edit: also I think it's a good idea to open all mail sent to your address so you know what you're dealing with, but I guess that's another issue. edit: sorry I didn't see that he said it is a good idea. I thought he said it is NOT a good idea. apologies.

I ignored letters sent to my old address when i was living there, until a highly aggressive debt collector turned up, who wouldnt accept i was not the named person, and they didnt live there

 

[James Forridge]

Right, I guess I should contact them to get it sorted. One thing though, as I said in the first post, I'm reluctant to give them my actual name in case they use it against me because I have a bad feeling they will resort to underhanded tactics. Should I give them my real name? If I don't give it to them then it's easier to prove that I wasn't on the train since if they prosecute me like they're threatening they won't have it to use in their case. What do you guys think? edit: the reason I think they might is because of the second letter that makes me wonder whether they're just making up names themselves.