Chiltern Evergreen 3 Bicester - Oxford

[swt_passenger]

Secretary of State TWA letter:

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/twa-20120124/chiltern-railways-decision-letter.pdf

Minded to make the order, subject to any valid last minute objections or valid requests to reopen the enquiry.

New deadline is tomorrow...

 

[oversteer]

We do love our bats don't we!

Maybe they should dig out a second tunnel for the bats to use

 

[Chris125]

Great news, though there'll be a few LNWR directors turning in their graves if you look at the station designs...

Chris

 

[swt_passenger]

We do love our bats don't we!

Maybe they should dig out a second tunnel for the bats to use

The bats are sorted. It's probably more the noise and vibration nimbys they need to worry about.

Also, if anyone follows the links and opens up the zip file of correspondence on the DfT's site, the last contribution is from the infamous Paul Withrington, so called 'director' of his own one man anti-rail campaign group 'Transport Watch'.

Read that and realise that he bombards the DfT, and the national press with that sort of stuff regularly - and occasionaly editors get taken in by his detailed reports...

 

[OliverS]

The bats are sorted. It's probably more the noise and vibration nimbys they need to worry about.

Maybe I misread it, but I thought it was saying that everything was sorted, and why, and now it was the last chance to point out why the reasons given were wrong.

 

[swt_passenger]

Maybe I misread it, but I thought it was saying that everything was sorted, and why, and now it was the last chance to point out why the reasons given were wrong.

I thought that, but I think re-reading para 36 does suggest that even at this stage the enquiry could be reopened.

We'll see what happens failry quickly, I think. It may well be that any remaining objector's legal advisors will give them a push in the right direction if they are convinced it is now a done deal...

 

[OliverS]

I thought that, but I think re-reading para 36 does suggest that even at this stage the enquiry could be reopened.

We'll see what happens failry quickly, I think. It may well be that any remaining objector's legal advisors will give them a push in the right direction if they are convinced it is now a done deal...

I sort of got the impression that it could be reopened in theory, but that you would have to be bringing something new or pointing out a mistake rather than rehashing old stuff. I.e. hopefully unlikely to be reopened.

 

[aylesbury]

There,s alot of wealthy nimbys in this area and they think that can make the rules for the rest of us .They take over villages and only commute or live in them as holiday homes. Travel links need priority over these people and bats this link is wanted by millions and should have been started by now.

 

[Clip]

There,s alot of wealthy nimbys in this area and they think that can make the rules for the rest of us .They take over villages and only commute or live in them as holiday homes. Travel links need priority over these people and bats this link is wanted by millions and should have been started by now.

Millions? are you sure??

 

[Andyjs247]

Millions? are you sure??

Wanted by millions is perhaps stretching the point. However, in the context of East-West rail of which Evergreen 3 is just the start it is not unrealistic to say that the link would bring benefits to millions of people living in the wider south east MK/south midlands areas and beyond to East Anglia and the south west.

Looking forward to an early decision. The cynic in me wonders if it were DfT proposing the scheme (e.g. if it was East-West rail coming first not Chiltern), whether the planning process would be any different.

 

[gwr2006]

DELAYED AGAIN....

The TWA public inquiry is being re-opened this summer to consider 4 specific matters raised by objectors. Already one year behind schedule this could push services back another year to 2015. Here is a statement from Chiltern Railways:

We are currently working to establish a direct rail link between Oxford and London Marylebone, the first new rail route between London and a major city for 100 years. The Evergreen 3 project which will deliver this is currently awaiting final Transport and Works Act approval following confirmation from the Secretary of State in January 2012 that she was minded to make the Order. This followed a public inquiry held in Oxford between November 2010 and January 2011 after which the Inspector’s report found there to be a compelling case for the scheme in the public interest.

In her letter of January 2012 the Secretary of State, in accordance with the Transport and Works Act Inquiry Procedure Rules, gave those who presented evidence at the public inquiry, the opportunity to make further written representations or to ask for the inquiry to be re-opened.

On 6th March 2012 we were advised by the Department for Transport that the Secretary of State is re-opening the inquiry to further consider four specific matters. These relate only to the mitigation measures for bats living in Wolvercot tunnel and to the form of three of the planning conditions proposed by the Secretary of State. The re-opened inquiry will not consider evidence on any other matters.

We have already committed to a range of mitigation measures including:

- the development of a system where the approach of a train at night would trigger lights in Wolvercot tunnel which would deter bats from the path of the train. Trials in autumn 2011 showed that this system would be successful. A monitoring programme has been agreed and Natural England is satisfied that a Protected Species licence should be issued if the Order is made.

- the provision of noise barriers and noise insulation measures where required along the line.

- the relocation of great crested newts and badgers to keep them safe from the works and the operation of the line.

- the avoidance of Roman remains and the contribution of funds to support the restoration of the historic swing bridge near the old Rewley Road station.

- a commitment to improve rail, pedestrian and road safety by replacing most level crossings.

Rob Brighouse, Managing Director of Chiltern Railways said: “Our proposed link between Oxford and London will bring huge benefits to Oxford and Bicester, and the planned parkway station in north Oxford at Water Eaton will allow passengers to avoid congestion in the city centre. Whilst it is disappointing that the inquiry has been reopened, we welcome the opportunity to demonstrate further, in public, the lengths we have gone to deal with the issues raised and to protect the local environment. We remain committed and confident about the project and we look forward to receiving the final permission from the Secretary of State in the near future.”

Once the Transport and Works Act has been approved we will re-evaluate the project schedule before beginning construction with the aim of opening the line in 2014.

 

[Prometheus]

How long before Chiltern Railways give up on this as a bad job?

 

[Eagle]

...the first new rail route between London and a major city for 100 years...

Erm, HS1 anyone?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

How long before Chiltern Railways give up on this as a bad job?

They can't. It's too far gone now. Besides, EWR is dependent on its completion.

 

[Bald Rick]

Erm, HS1 anyone?

Ah the sprawling metropolis that is Ashford

 

[Eagle]

Ah the sprawling metropolis that is Ashford

Or that quaint little town an hour and a half down the railway line from it... Paris I think it's called.

 

[giblets]

I suppose it answers the questions about doing Evergreen 3, then making more changes for EWR! Would doing this reduce costs? Certainly for Chiltern, as EWR will pick up some of the cost?

 

[LE Greys]

Great news, though there'll be a few LNWR directors turning in their graves if you look at the station designs...

Chris

Yes, not exactly pretty, they look like barn conversions.

 

[Prometheus]

They can't. It's too far gone now. Besides, EWR is dependent on its completion.

Perhaps Chiltern would be wise to sit back and let EWR go ahead, then just build the Bicester chord. Much less risk that way.

 

[Jonny]

The bats are sorted. It's probably more the noise and vibration nimbys they need to worry about.

Also, if anyone follows the links and opens up the zip file of correspondence on the DfT's site, the last contribution is from the infamous Paul Withrington, so called 'director' of his own one man anti-rail campaign group 'Transport Watch'.

Read that and realise that he bombards the DfT, and the national press with that sort of stuff regularly - and occasionaly editors get taken in by his detailed reports...

His reports are deeply flawed - they fail to take into account the benefits of increased, safe speed that rail can bring. They assume the squeezing of traffic at any speed rather than with speed maximisation. 100+ miles on an express coach? No thanks (vomits). Doubly so if trying to read etc - time on a train is not "dead time", time on road vehicles is. Also, he deliberately excludes cycle :-x:-x and pedestrian traffic from his analysis - forms of traffic that, although potentially inefficient, have every right to be there (except motorways and special roads) and rightly so (after all, most roads are access roads to premises).

Back on topic, anything that "lands" closer to Central London proper than Paddington (long way out) has to be a good thing.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Postscript: I presume PW of the group TW has this in mind as his idea of efficiency in transport:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNixDlRoMvA

 

[156402]

Or that quaint little town an hour and a half down the railway line from it... Paris I think it's called.

And its surburb, Lille!

 

[Chris125]

Yes, not exactly pretty, they look like barn conversions.

Perhaps, but i was thinking more about the clear GWR inspiration for the designs, even to the extent of building pagoda shelters!

Chris

 

[Tugboatden]

Is there a date scheduled for the enquiry yet?
As a matter of interest, is it likely to drag on and on with innumerable facile objections and the build date gets pushed further and further back, or is there a 'get on with it now' cut-off?
I wish they could just get on and build the line as I would find it quite convenient to get to Oxford this way!

 

[swt_passenger]

Dates are here:

http://www.chiltern-evergreen3.co.uk/index.php/twa-inquiry

They don't seem to be hurrying at all...

Loads of new bumph, but Chiltern's 'statement of case' includes this summary:

1.10 In a letter on 6 March 2012 [X/25], the Secretary of State announced that the Inquiry
was to be re-opened, to consider four matters set out in paragraph 7, which are:

(i) “Whether the mitigation measures proposed by Chiltern since the close of the
inquiry and agreed by Natural England to protect bats at Wolvercot Tunnel
near Oxford are sufficient to remove the likely impediment to implementation
of the scheme in this regard, identified by the Inspector at paragraph 9.17.11
of his report of 15 July 2011.

(ii) Whether condition 19 (operational noise and vibration monitoring and
mitigation), in the form now proposed in the Annex to the Department’s letter
of 24 January 2012, would serve to ensure that the operation of the scheme
would have an acceptable effect on local residents, businesses and the
environment, by virtue of noise and vibration.

(iii) Whether condition 31 (measures for the protection of the lowland hay
meadow habitat at the Oxford Meadows Special Area of Conservation), in the
form now proposed in the Annex to the Department’s letter of 24 January
2012, would serve to ensure that the scheme in operation would not be likely
to have an adverse effect on the integrity of the Oxford Meadows SAC,
having regard to the conservation objectives of the site, by reason of air
pollution.

(iv) Whether condition 32 (measures for the protection of the Hook Meadow and
Trap Grounds SSSI), in the form now proposed in the Annex to the
Department’s letter of 24 January 2012, would serve to ensure that the
scheme would not be likely to have an adverse effect on the notified special
interest features of the SSSI.”
The Secretary of State stated that she is “not inviting, and will not refer to the reopened
inquiry, evidence on any other matters”.

 

[L&Y Robert]

Is there a date scheduled for the enquiry yet?
As a matter of interest, is it likely to drag on and on with innumerable facile objections and the build date gets pushed further and further back, or is there a 'get on with it now' cut-off?

I don't understand why we have to trudge through this time consuming expensive procedure of a Public Inquiry at all. The railway company was granted the right to build and operate a railway by virtue of an Act of Parliament around 1850. Well, they built it and have operated it, and their successors in title are still operating it. The proposal before us is NOT to build a railway - the railway is already there, save for the new connecting chord. The proposal is to improve the railway we've got, and run more trains on it. How does that require a Public Inquiry? Network Rail is always altering, improving, re-arranging its infrastructure, and they don't have to go to the Secrertary of State every time they relocate a set of points. And the train companies run their trains as best they can, as often as they need, and they don't need a Public Inquiry to alter the timetable, put on an extra service, or withdraw another one. Just what is the problem? Bats in the tunnel, newts in the pond, badgers in the hedgerow vs how many - I hate to think - car journeys, gallons of fuel, tons of carbon dioxide, wasted hours of peoples lives in hold-ups or just driving (no fit activity for a human being in my opinion), trying to park and all the rest of it.
Bit of a rant, I know, but what's the answer?

And its carbon DIOXIDE we produce that is harmful- not "carbon".

 

[LE Greys]

I don't understand why we have to trudge through this time consuming expensive procedure of a Public Inquiry at all. The railway company was granted the right to build and operate a railway by virtue of an Act of Parliament around 1850. Well, they built it and have operated it, and their successors in title are still operating it. The proposal before us is NOT to build a railway - the railway is already there, save for the new connecting chord. The proposal is to improve the railway we've got, and run more trains on it. How does that require a Public Inquiry? Network Rail is always altering, improving, re-arranging its infrastructure, and they don't have to go to the Secrertary of State every time they relocate a set of points. And the train companies run their trains as best they can, as often as they need, and they don't need a Public Inquiry to alter the timetable, put on an extra service, or withdraw another one. Just what is the problem? Bats in the tunnel, newts in the pond, badgers in the hedgerow vs how many - I hate to think - car journeys, gallons of fuel, tons of carbon dioxide, wasted hours of peoples lives in hold-ups or just driving (no fit activity for a human being in my opinion), trying to park and all the rest of it.
Bit of a rant, I know, but what's the answer?

And its carbon DIOXIDE we produce that is harmful- not "carbon".

I quite agree. Although it's also Carbon monoxide, Methane, Carbon particulates and so on, so 'Carbon' is probably OK (said the rivet-counter).

 

[LexyBoy]

"Carbon" is commonly used as shorthand for "carbon dioxide equivalent", although it does grate somewhat (although not as much as when people write C02). More seriously it's potentially misleading as CO2 is only 27% carbon by mass, so 1 tonne of "carbon" could refer to either 1 or 4 tonnes of CO2, depending whether it was meant as CO2e or literally carbon.

Apologies for offtopic!

 

[L&Y Robert]

"Carbon" is commonly used as shorthand for "carbon dioxide equivalent", although it does grate somewhat (although not as much as when people write C02). More seriously it's potentially misleading as CO2 is only 27% carbon by mass, so 1 tonne of "carbon" could refer to either 1 or 4 tonnes of CO2, depending whether it was meant as CO2e or literally carbon.

Apologies for offtopic!

Staying off topic just a bit longer, have you ever considered what this "Carbon capture and deep storage" is? Underground is where the coal and oil came from in the first place. It's already "captured" before its dug out! What madness is this!

 

[Railcar B]

Just what is the problem? Bats in the tunnel, newts in the pond, badgers in the hedgerow.

And whatever did the poor bats do in steam days?

 

[YorkshireBear]

And whatever did the poor bats do in steam days?

They learnt not to live there!

If we took the same approach to environmental issues as we did in steam days, wed be screwed anyway.

 

[aylesbury]

The tree huggers are in control and will come up with new problems as the inquiry goes along.Bet Countryfile will send John Craven along to a do a peice on the enquiry and make Chiltern out to be vandals.This matter needs to be settled as soon as possible and the link and services started .